From Dancer to Doula: Olivia Atley's Path to Transforming Maternal Care and Building Communities
In this episode, Olivia (Libby) Atley of BusyBÿ, LLC recounts her personal journey from a career in dance to becoming a full spectrum doula, herbalist, Reiki master, and yoga instructor. Olivia discusses the challenges she faced as a pregnant dancer, the transformative experience of discovering yoga, and the epiphany that led her to doula work. She emphasizes the importance of having a supportive birth team, the misconceptions about self-sufficiency in birth, practical tips for creating a calm and empowered birth experience, and ways to build a supportive village during pregnancy and postpartum. Olivia also shares insights on funding doula services through HSAs, FSAs, and baby registries, and passionately discusses the need for systemic changes in maternity care, including the inclusion of doulas in surgical births. Her dedication is fueled by a desire to ensure that future generations can experience safe and supported births without fear.
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00:00 Introduction of Olivia Atley
00:31 Discovering Yoga During Pregnancy
02:52 The Journey to Becoming a Doula
04:39 Supporting Friends and Community
07:38 Misconceptions About Pregnancy and Birth
11:55 The Role of a Doula in Labor
18:52 Creating a Calm Birth Environment
25:10 Building Your Support Village
33:35 Recommended Resources and Final Thoughts
40:12 The Unnecessary Restrictions in Surgical Spaces
41:43 The Role of Doulas in Supporting Partners
44:37 Personal Experiences in the OR
46:29 The Importance of Doula Support During Birth
49:28 Addressing Bias and Inequality in Maternal Health
51:37 Building a Supportive Birth Team
59:49 Funding Doula Services
01:09:55 Insurance and Employer Benefits for Doula Care
01:16:31 The Passion Behind Birth Work
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Olivia N Atley Dec 21, 2024
Olivia N Atley: So, my name is Olivia Atley. I am, um, I like to call myself a birth advocate and a birth professional. I work in the maternal and infant health space, um, specifically as a full spectrum doula. I am also an herbalist, a Reiki master, and a yoga instructor. it's interesting how I really came to all of this. And it's all rooted in literally my own, um, maternal journey. Right?
Performance and I was in at The Ohio State University to get my masters in dance production management. I was pregnant at the time this is the year. It's still so weird to me to even say these things out loud, but it was, you know, And you would think in 2001, there was like a little bit more progressive thought around a lot of things. Well, one thing they were not cool with was a pregnant dancer. So,
Vanessa: Wow.
Olivia N Atley: um, I actually like now when I see, Like in New York city, ballet has had a few of their, um, ballerinas who've been pregnant or those in the company who are pregnant and they still participate in company class.
And it just, I get so overwhelmed with tears and people don't understand why. And I'm like, because I wasn't allowed, like I literally was not allowed to dance. they had to come up with another form of a movement class me to take in place. my. Um, advisor, who was a male, he was like yoga. He's supremely liberal.
And I was like, sure. Hated yoga in my brain. That's a whole nother story. So I was going to these yoga, I started taking these yoga classes while I was in school for dance production management. And I remember like the first class I was like, I'm going to hate this. And I was like, all right, we're going to think about it differently.
And I loved it. and I remember. that class saying to myself, one day going to teach pregnant people yoga. So this is back in, it sounds so like 1970s
Vanessa: Okay.
Olivia N Atley: when I say it out loud, but it was 2001 because
Vanessa: Isn't that crazy?
Olivia N Atley: it is like, even then there was not an actual prenatal class. And my instructor was so, Bothered and in a pleasant way like she was so empathetic and she was so apologetic She's like I know nothing about pregnant people.
I know nothing about how it got how to guide this class for a pregnant person So we're going to learn this together if that's okay with you And I was like, yeah, it absolutely is like i'm learning too. I said, but I also like i'm a dancer I'm a mover. I kind of know what I shouldn't shouldn't be doing. Um, so That like led me You you know, my pregnancy, but then at the end of my pregnancy, I learned about doulas and I was like, oh, This is what was missing. Like I kept saying to
Vanessa: missing piece.
Olivia N Atley: Yeah, I kept saying to myself, it was the fact that, it was only the fact that my son's father wasn't active or present, right? it wasn't only that. It was also the fact that would have needed a doula. Everyone needs, deserves, should have a doula. And, so, once again, this pregnancy was like the epiphany of all things. It was like, well, now you need to be a doula too. are you going to do that? I don't know. But over time, I chipped away at the things.
I became, um, trained in pranayama, so breath practices first. Then, um, asana. Then meditation. Reiki came along the way as well. Just became a master trainer this year.
Vanessa: Congrats.
Olivia N Atley: And thank you. I began the journey of my doula work in 2019 officially. So prior to that, anyone who was close to me would always, um, because in their eyes and, and for all intents and purposes, my first pregnancy was like beautiful, pristine, no issues, nothing aside from the preterm labors. So there were, he tried to come At 32 weeks, then he came at 36 and a half.
Vanessa: Oh, okay.
Olivia N Atley: So that was, those were the only hiccups. There were significant hiccups, but those were the only hiccups in my pregnancy. And through nursing him all, like that was it. Like we didn't have like, so people would always call me like, what did you do?
How'd you do this? And so I was always that person in whether it was my family or a friend circle, or even like my church community, people were like, so tell me how you were able to nurse. Like, I remember taking my son with me to go visit a friend because she had a baby after me because she couldn't understand the latch. So I took my baby with me to go show her how to latch her daughter. Like, I've been doing this for a while.
Vanessa: And what a great resource for your friends. No wonder they kept coming to you.
Olivia N Atley: Thank you. So, so that's how I got here doing all of this stuff that I just love deeply.
Vanessa: Awesome. Was there anything in particular that inspired you? Anything one of your instructors had said that really triggered in your mind, this is why I need to do this, or wait, I can make a thing of this. Let's start with the yoga. Like you had mentioned that, that your one teacher was just really transparent with you, and so we're going to learn together.
Olivia N Atley: I mean, she was, and I think it was, there's a genuine like tenderness that people have towards pregnant people. Right. And she saw me come into class. I wasn't like visibly pregnant, but she took the time to come and talk to me because I was new. with
Vanessa: Um, uh,
Olivia N Atley: a prenatal yoga class? Like,
Vanessa: Right.
Olivia N Atley: At the time, like, childbirth education was really big, um, you could look left, right, and to the center and always find a childbirth education class, so it was like, so I was really surprised that there wasn't a prenatal yoga class, and, um, this speaks to my African name.
So my African name is Sosi, which is Thunder Goddess. And the premise is, is that the thunder is what prepares the way, like it
Vanessa: Okay. Okay.
Olivia N Atley: not even thinking
Vanessa: Okay.
Olivia N Atley: it. And so it was just in my mind like, Oh, well I'll do it then.
Like y'all ain't, so I will like,
Vanessa: Well, and it's so funny you say trailblazer because that's literally as you are telling me your story. I, that is how I classified you in my head. I'm like, she is a trailblazer. She
Olivia N Atley: you.
Vanessa: saw a path that was not the right one. a trail yet and, and you made it, you made it a thing and you recognize the need for it in a time when nobody else did and you, you created it for yourself and I love that.
Olivia N Atley: Thank you. Thank you.
Vanessa: What's one of the biggest misconceptions that you see about pregnancy, birth, and postpartum? Mm hmm. Mm hmm. Mm hmm.
Olivia N Atley: is that people don't need help. Um, there are too many books. There are so many ways to learn, whether it's in person, at the hospital, through a midwifery group, online, so, so many ways. That is not going to save you in the middle of the night. It is not going to be all that you need during the day. right? and it's a very different space.
And so I've had like, I've had two births, very different experiences, right? my first birth, I read everything you could think of. Back then, the TV show, Maternity Ward, um, was pretty new and I watched it faithfully. Um, I credit them to the reason why I knew that my first son's, um, sugar was low
Vanessa: Mm hmm. Mm hmm.
Olivia N Atley: him fructose water. I had heard them say this on the TV show, heard them say it. In the delivery room. I'm sorry. I'll take him. Thanks. You can hand him here. They're like, what do you mean? He I said you're about to give him sugar water and I can just go ahead and nurse him That's that would be better and they're like So astounded that I knew what was happening but Having to do that didn't really allow me the space to kind of relax
Vanessa: Mm hmm.
Olivia N Atley: and enjoy Because there is an enjoyment and joy to giving birth
Vanessa: Absolutely.
Olivia N Atley: and With my second child. I had a doula a partner and an amazing OB you when I say to you I didn't have to think about any of the things it was literally handing my baby. Uh huh. You're doing okay Go for it. Like my brain didn't have to do that work. And so I just find that oftentimes people think that they have enough information and education to take care of themselves solely. It's important to know, it's important to have that, but it's also important to have people with you, alongside you, through the journey, so they can pick up the pieces, so they
Vanessa: Mm hmm.
Olivia N Atley: Prepare the food so you're not standing on your feet. You should not be cooking meals. I'm gonna say two months. Some folks are like, whatever.
I'm like, eh, two months? You're gonna be cooking. You shouldn't be in the kitchen. Like, if you need to go fix yourself and put something in the microwave, I'm not telling you not to do that. But also, having, like,
Vanessa: You need a village.
Olivia N Atley: you, you do. You, you definitely do. Likewise, you need someone other than your partner
Vanessa: Mm hmm. Mm
Olivia N Atley: deliver because you both need support. And sometimes what the partner needs is someone to tell them what to do or support them in doing something or encourage them in doing something. My doula was very hands on, but so was my boyfriend, right?
Vanessa: hmm.
Olivia N Atley: that's because she was, still laugh because I still hold, I still have the text thread between the three of us.
I
Vanessa: Oh.
Olivia N Atley: deleted it yet.
Vanessa: Ha ha ha ha.
Olivia N Atley: opened it the other day, and I was like, oh, it's so cute. had text him. It's still, it just makes me giggle so much. I'm sorry. She had text him pictures of birthing positions and like all the things during labor. Like you could be doing this, do this, you could do that, you could do that. Here's all the stuff that you can do. I was like, I love this because that's what, that's literally what we do with this.
Vanessa: yeah, I would say a lot of our job, aside from obviously supporting the birther, is to your point, not just mentally and emotionally supporting the partner, because I find a lot of times when they're seeing their loved one, in this state that, and they can't solve for it, you know, they have a really hard time processing that sometimes and they can freeze up or just be in literal shock over it.
And so , it's so helpful to have a doula in the space that can not only help guide the partner, but literally help Like tag team with them because labor can be very long and let me tell you counterpressure and hip squeezes. Those are tiring for even the person that's helping do them.
Olivia N Atley: Yes.
Vanessa: to be able to swap out and, and , just encourage them and, , express when things are normal, you know, again, they can be in a state of shock or just curiosity and, and you can help them through, that process too.
Olivia N Atley: Yeah, absolutely.
Vanessa: Um,
Olivia N Atley: of like the length of labor that tag team and people, there's the also like in this misconception, there's this idea that or belief that your nurse, your, your OB is going to be with you the whole time.
Vanessa: Yeah, that was my, I tell everybody that that's like one of my leading stories where I feel like people don't talk about that enough that even now as a doula, when I was pregnant, I took hypnobirthing and through that process, I learned, yeah, your, your OB is going to come to show up to catch the baby. And sometimes you'll be pushing for a while before they even show up.
And your, your labor and delivery nurse, one, , you might not be their only patient. They're going to be watching the monitors from the nurse's station. They're not going to be in the room. They might come in to check vitals or intermittently monitor you, but they're not going to be at your bedside the whole time.
And especially for those first time birthers, labor is long. And if you go to the hospital in early labor or early active labor, You're going to be there a while, probably, and you're probably going to go through two or three shift changes, whereas a doula can be there with you from the beginning, know your whole story, know all the positions you've tried, be there to encourage you, you have a connection with them already.
And, yeah, it's just. Your labor and delivery is not going to be at your bedside the whole time.
Olivia N Atley: not and it's it's interesting that you mention, you know, the like the length So my second son we were in labor for I think 36 hour 36. It was an induction So we knew it was gonna be long. We were like we were mentally prepared like this is about to be the thing we met When the nurse came back from the first shift, I was like, Oh, honey, she's like, Oh, honey, you haven't had this baby yet.
I said, I know, right? She's like, you're still here. I said, you're back. We might need to move this along friends. And if you don't have that continuity, like, of someone, and it's so much to ask of the birthing person to be able to have to rename all of the things, and it's so much to ask of their partner to as well when they're trying to be there for them, it's why you need a doula, friends.
One of the reasons.
Vanessa: Yeah.
Olivia N Atley: Mm
Vanessa: And I always tell my clients too, and their partners, if they have one that it's, I could do this too, and we will tag team, but it's going to mean a lot more in getting that oxytocin flow. If you are the one touching and massaging her and whispering affirmations in her ear, I am absolutely willing to do that.
And that's part of my job, but it's going to meet a lot more coming from you.
Olivia N Atley: 100%. I had a birth earlier this year where, um, at one point, the nurses were with me because I wasn't working as hard as they thought I should be working. Um, because they wanted labor to move faster than what it was. And don't get me wrong. I think she labored. She was just short of 12 hours.
Vanessa: Okay, yeah. And
Olivia N Atley: pregnancy, like what everybody would want and hope for, right? and I remember sitting in the rocking chair. She's in the bed. I don't know what her husband was doing, but he was in the room. Her mom was there and the nurses were just like the charge nurse to come in and I realized later that's why they sent her was She wanted to have a talk with the family and make sure they were getting what they needed. And like, you don't even pay me. But so I had to talk with the charge nurse afterwards. I said, so, so explain to me what your concern was. says, well, you're just sitting in the chair. And I said, don't really need to do anything at this moment. not physically needed. Her mother and her husband are here on purpose. I am here to help all of them through this process. Just
Vanessa: a big, big part is observing what's going on. You can sit back and observe and listen and wait for cues for when they need you.
Olivia N Atley: And I can see when maybe even the person that you love the most, your husband, partner in this space, not be exactly what you need in the moment, right?
Vanessa: hmm, mm hmm. Yeah.
Olivia N Atley: to go get a drink. When's the last time you ate? Also, like, really, when's the last time you ate? Do you need a snack? Go get a snack. Come on back. We're, we're gonna be here. No baby will come flying out before you, you get here, before you get back. I so promise. Um, but it's like being able to help everyone out in the room to take care of themselves so they can be completely present for birthing person and the actual birth of baby when it happens. So it's always just interesting how people like a certain expectation of what doulas should be doing in the moment.
Vanessa: I love that. What are some practical tips that you would give for someone wanting to create a calm and empowered birth experience?
Olivia N Atley: Tips for a doula or a birther?
Vanessa: A birther. Uh huh. Uh huh.
Olivia N Atley: From the moment that you know that you're pregnant, there's a, um, there's a whole lot of shifts, correct? But there is an emotional and mental shift that can take place that can really set you up for peace and joy and happiness. I believe peace and joy can still exist amidst pain and discomfort, right? So, if that means, um, like doing some mindfulness activities throughout the pregnancy, and just staying consistent with that, so you have that time to really check in with yourself, to recalibrate your, you know, nervous system, and to rebalance your emotions daily. You know, things like meditation, breathing practices, I love to color, crafting is a mindfulness activity. Walking in nature is a great physical and mindfulness activity. So figure out how to bring those types of things into your daily life on a regular basis. And then, Incorporating that as much as you can into that pregnant, that, uh, birthing space, right?
So, if you're a walker, walk around the room, walk the unit, if that makes you feel good. Like, if you find peace in that, then doing that. We probably can't get you out into the nature if you're in a hospital setting. So, how are you going to bring that nature to you? Does that mean that I need to have an oil diffuser with, you know, fur and mint, uh, essential oil?
Vanessa: Uh huh.
Olivia N Atley: then we do that. Do I need to have nature sounds playing in the background? What is the lighting like? I'm big on lighting. I cannot stand bright fluorescent light
Vanessa: Absolutely.
Olivia N Atley: So Ask for the lights to be dimmed. Some people love the good ol , twinkle fairy lights, I don't feel anything about it.
If that's you, then string those lights up, sis, all the way around the room. Whatever makes you feel good. Um, and then, Another thing is, you know, especially those last few weeks before delivery, something I like to do with my clients, and especially in my yoga classes, is we make trigger cards. So, and I probably should find a different word to say than trigger, maybe power, is it better?
Vanessa: I'm not.
Olivia N Atley: reading those power cards with phrases are going to help you through and One of my clients hadn't done her homework and her doctor, um, her induced she was so frantic. She's like, I didn't do my cards. It's okay, honey. It's okay. You literally have them in your phone, right? She's like, yeah.
I said, so just read them from your phone. know you wanted something pretty to be able to hang up, to be able to visually see. I understand that, but you have them in your phone. on your side and read. Have
Vanessa: I'd love that. Mm hmm. Mm hmm. Mm hmm. Mm hmm.
Olivia N Atley: to ask as well. Like, hey, these are some important words to me that would be helpful if I hear this process. Um, cause you know, we hear a lot of, oh, you got it. This is great. You're doing awesome.
But what if I don't want to hear that? So, you know, in my, in my personal opinion, um, Things that worked for me, things that I've known that has worked for clients and students is that like mindfulness activity all through pregnancy and then doing as much as you can to bring the things that feel good to you into your birthing space, whether you're at a hospital, whether, you know, even if you are in your home, like, how do you set your home up to feel serene, comfortable, peaceful and joyous? around the pregnancy. the birth, I should say, and you know, being conscious of the words that you're saying to yourself and that are being used around you because all of that, I just, I feel like just matters so much more than we give it credit for, you know, the word I will just, it will always like be very important to me as I think about the word spell right to cast a spell is to, you know, um, set out an intention to expect something to happen. spelling, every word is a spell. as I'm concerned. So just being so mindful of what we're saying and, um, just really helps to set that tone in this space. So if you're being mindful all pregnancy, you're learning how to talk to yourself. You're learning that internal conversation that sets up the parasympathetic system to respond just entirely different to what's about to come.
Vanessa: Right. And once you get into transition and that pushing phase, even That is the intent and how it's all made is that you, you should be turning inward. That's what happens and you need to be able to call upon that and taking that, making it a daily practice helps you dig into that and make it feel more intuitive in, in early and active labor so that once you get to that, um, Um, phase that you can feel safe and in more of a peaceful, calm state.
Olivia N Atley: Yes. Accurate.
Vanessa: Okay. And how about, any advice for somebody building their village during pregnancy and for postpartum?
Olivia N Atley: So I'm all about being. transparent and direct and intentional, right? Um, we all know who really can and cannot show up for us the way that we want or hope. Give them something else to do. Because they still have value, right?
Vanessa: Right.
Olivia N Atley: So just really thinking about like, I love plan. Man, oh man. I love a postpartum plan.
Like, makes me
Vanessa: Right.
Olivia N Atley: birth plan is work, intentional, it. But that postpartum plan is so much fun to me. it's really about looking at what do you think that you're going to need. And, It's helpful to do it with somebody, right?
So, a doula helps. another, um, I hate to use, I have to use this word, but like, another bipartisan party. Like someone else other than your partner. Right? Because the two of you, if there is a partner, should be sitting down with somebody else. They can help you go, and you're gonna need this, and you're gonna need that.
Vanessa: Mm hmm.
Olivia N Atley: Don't forget you have a dog. Who's going to walk the dog when you go into labor? coming to clean the litter box?
Vanessa: Mm hmm.
Olivia N Atley: smell when you walk back in the house. Um, so really getting like finite with are the things that we think that we're going to need, whether it's during labor and postpartum. Because some people just like whatever during labor. Not worried about, but the postpartum they want to spend more time focusing on. out what those things are, and then remind yourself, now layer the things that are already existing, right? So, you need to eat, you need house cleaned, you need laundry done, um, you're gonna need shopping done.
And yes, we have, um, and all of the things to
Vanessa: Mm hmm.
Olivia N Atley: and meals to us, but sometimes that's just enough, like, that's
Vanessa: The mental load
Olivia N Atley: Yes,
Vanessa: the cart and then hit enter and put in the credit card.
Olivia N Atley: You're everything like,
Vanessa: Yeah.
Olivia N Atley: I don't know. I get caught up on the end when it always says, did you forget something girl? I don't know. Just click all of them because maybe I did. That's why I
Vanessa: Yeah.
Olivia N Atley: I mean, I don't know. I think I got it all, Really looking at, like, don't forget you still have these other basic needs that need to be met. Now, decide how you want your community to show up. So, who are the people that can come, that you feel comfortable coming into your house and cleaning up something? Right? For me, that would be my mom and my sister.
Vanessa: Mm hmm.
Olivia N Atley: Not that I don't care about other people, but my mom raised me, my mom raised my sister. I can trust that the two of them together probably get my house back the way I would
Vanessa: That you want it in a non judgmental way.
Olivia N Atley: And there's that, like, right? You
Vanessa: Mm hmm.
Olivia N Atley: someone judging or act like, because the worst thing is you have somebody come to do something for you and they're asking you how to do it. Oh, man, I could have done it.
Vanessa: Right.
Olivia N Atley: That's not what I wanted. You also need to consider like who do you trust being around your baby during that time? Like are they the people who? to just hold your baby, those aren't the people that you need to come hang out,
Vanessa: Right.
Olivia N Atley: out. Um, and so like creating this plan based on what do you need, who's in your community that can actually do these things, and allow them to do it. I love Mealtrain,
Vanessa: Mm hmm.
Olivia N Atley: Mealtrain Plus. gives you the additional options, like, it's not just, oh, can I, Bring a meal or have a meal sent this time and I will say this to listening if you are ever in a position to support a family through meal train. I Encourage you to not send a gift card because just as we spoke about a minute
Vanessa: Mm hmm. Mm hmm. Mm
Olivia N Atley: get online to go order this Send them food directly Drop them off food directly.
That's my like I get I don't wanna say I get rude. I do. I'll just say it I get bothered Like why didn't you send a gift card? I know you thought that was that was easy for you But it still worked for me which
Vanessa: hmm.
Olivia N Atley: help right now because it's not just about the finances And I see what people are hoping to do, but it's still Extra work. Um, but the Miltrain Plus also allows you to have people to sign up to walk your dog, to come do child care for older siblings, to potentially come clean up around the house, or if you need things other than food delivered to your house, like wipes, paper towels, tissue, toilet paper, they can bring those to the house as well. Um, So feel like it's important during your pregnancy to kind of prep people for this.
Vanessa: let it be known that this is, this is what you need and want. Mm-hmm
Olivia N Atley: like say it up front when people are like, Oh, what are you going to need? Listen friends, the only thing that you really need for baby, once they're born, diapers, milk, however that's coming, whether it's breast milk or whether it's formula. So, if you're breastfeeding, there's things that you would need for breastfeeding. If you're bottle feeding, you need bottles and formula, etc. Onesies and sleepers. baby really doesn't need anything else.
Vanessa: Right?
Olivia N Atley: At all. And I'm a lover of things. I mean, I love things and I like little things. So, it's really hard for me sometimes. Like, oh, I want to buy all the cute little baby stuff. They don't need it.
Vanessa: yeah. Mm-hmm
Olivia N Atley: fun, but they don't need it. What do I need? I'm gonna need somebody to walk the dog. You think you could do that? Or who do you, better yet, you don't, let me not say that, who do you think, friend, I should have come walk my dog? Tell me. Alright, need somebody to come clean up the kitchen. a week.
Who do you think? But saying that, like, those are the things you
Vanessa: Right?
Olivia N Atley: You need someone to clean your kitchen. You need someone to prep a meal. You need someone to come, you know, help organize your things, baby things, whatever the case may be, but those people who are close to you to do those things.
And then who do you trust enough to come give you a nap,
Vanessa: Mm-hmm
Olivia N Atley: right? Cause that's, that's the baby holding time
Vanessa: Yep.
Olivia N Atley: and or your partner needs a nap. Um,
Vanessa: And showers are not self-care. showers are bare minimum
a nap and a shower is not self-care. Mm-hmm
Olivia N Atley: should be getting sleep. It's, it's going to be intermittent, but you should be getting sleep. And if you
Vanessa: Mm-hmm
Olivia N Atley: support in making sure that that happens for both of you, okay. Then hire a doula you ask family and friends community. To come step up where you feel comfortable. Right. Cause it's not everybody.
Like that's not an everyone role.
Vanessa: Yeah. Right. Um. So you mentioned Meal Train Plus. I love that. I'll include that in the show notes too. Um, are there any other resources or books or tools that you typically recommend to your clients or other parents?
Olivia N Atley: Um, I'm dating myself here, but it's still on the market. So I'll say it. I still am in love with what to expect when you're expecting. I
Vanessa: Okay. And
Olivia N Atley: other things out there as well, but also. It's not a bad resource. It gives you a month to month itemization of like, this is what is happening to your body, this is what's happening to baby, here's what you should expect when you are with your, uh, provider, these questions will be asked, these Procedures will be done, et cetera, et cetera. So I can't say enough about that. But there's another book that I do love and it's called The First Time Parent Childbirth Handbook.
Vanessa: is there anything in particular about that one? Why you recommend it?
Olivia N Atley: Because it's a, it's a great guide to creating your birth plan.
Vanessa: Okay.
Olivia N Atley: So Dr. Stephanie Mitchell, she is, um, I do believe, d. N. P. and she's a C. N. M. She's actually in the process of opening a birth center in Alabama
Vanessa: Got it.
Olivia N Atley: Significant, um, maternal health, uh, desert,
Vanessa: Yes. I think I follow her on Instagram actually.
Olivia N Atley: probably. So a lot of people have started to hear late, which is
Vanessa: Yeah.
Olivia N Atley: Birth sanctuary, Gainesville.
Vanessa: Yes.
Olivia N Atley: Yep. So
Vanessa: As soon as you said that, I was like, wait a minute. I know that name.
Olivia N Atley: her book. Um, and like I said, it's just a great, because here's the reality. Not everybody can afford a doula, right? So what resources do exist that are more affordable? You have these books. Um, is also the fourth trimester is one of my favorites. It's so comprehensive. Like,
Vanessa: Absolutely. Yep. I've got that on my list too.
Olivia N Atley: I don't, um, I'm trying to find wood. I think this is real wood. I don't want to have another kid. Okay. But reading that book just makes you go, Oh, to do the postpartum period over again could be so luxurious. Because the way that they like frame it up, like do these things, like, So if you buy this book, buy it during the second trimester so you can read it during the second trimester, put it into action in the third.
So you're ready for it in the fourth, waiting
Vanessa: great advice.
Olivia N Atley: week
Vanessa: I
Olivia N Atley: you're just going to be angry at yourself. Like, man, cause that's what I did. Well, he was born early. So that is my one. disclaimers. Like my second baby was born early as well. So I didn't get enough time to play around with that book the way I wanted to before I had him.
Vanessa: think that's great advice in any kind of education, too. It's never too early to start educating yourself. And, like you mentioned before, the mindfulness practices. Make that a daily routine throughout your entire pregnancy so that it's easier for you to call upon that, um, when things get really crazy during labor.
Okay? Mm hmm. Right.
Olivia N Atley: that that's part of the reason why I offer my clients as much of the things that I do. So, you know, if I have, um, most of my clients are full spectrum. So I I'm seeing them soon as they know that they're pregnant. all the way through, um, eight weeks postpartum. So in that, now they can opt out. They don't have to, but I always hope that they will. But at all of our prenatal, um, visits that they would get a, um, So I'll do a 10 minute meditation with them and their partner if they want. They also can have Reiki if they would so choose. So that's why it's really important. It's like, well, if I'm modeling. This skill, this activity, hopefully you'll take it on in some capacity beyond our time together will show up during labor, right? I had, I've had, you know, clients on both ends of the spectrum when it comes to the offering with their, um, their package and, know, one client. She didn't want Reiki we would always forget about meditation until it was time to go.
Like she'd be like, Oh, you've already been here 30 minutes too long and we didn't do it again. I'm like, we're going to be better next time. We're going to be better next time. But she would always me within the next couple of days and tell me that she spent time quiet and stillness. Um, and that she was just thankful for the fact that I was a reminder to her to do that. So
Vanessa: That's great. Okay. Um, this one I think is a little bit complicated. So if you need to take a pause to think about it, but you're going to want to pause. What's one change you wish you could see in maternity care today?
Olivia N Atley: Just one.
Vanessa: Exactly. Maybe two. Like what, what are your top things that you just really wish if you could wave your magic wand that,
Olivia N Atley: I'm
Vanessa: that could be a problem.
Olivia N Atley: would be like, I can't believe this is her top one, but this is my top one. Doulas should be in surgical spaces.
Vanessa: I love that. And a hundred percent, a thousand percent agree.
Olivia N Atley: I figured, um, but yeah, I, there's no reason, um, A doula should not be permitted in a surgical birth. There's no reason. There's none. And I say it with even more confidence now as being a student medical assistant. Like, no reason. It's not a room count issue.
Vanessa: Right. Right.
Olivia N Atley: There's literally no reason because everyone who comes into that room has to do the same exact, except for the birthing person, has to do the same exact wash, and preparation to be in that surgical space.
Vanessa: Right. And if a partner's allowed in to sit in their chair, What's one more standing beside them or sitting beside them? It's not like we're going to go around and touch everything in the sterile zone. Like, what do they think we're going to do?
Olivia N Atley: That's what I would like to know. Like, tell me what you think we're going to do. And I really want, I would love to hear a very honest and transparent answer. I'm, I'm even okay with them thinking that we're going to come in and touch things. But why would we? Like, if you say to us, we cannot come past this line. Because from here over sterile. Then I stay over here. This is easy.
Vanessa: Yeah, it's our reputation on the line too if we go in there messing things up. And we want to be allowed back in the OR because we see the need for it. We're not, we're not touching your sterile zone things.
Olivia N Atley: Right, we're not touching your sterile zone things, but I unfortunately believe that part of the reason and the continued resistance is um, whoever because you know they like to put it on the anesthesiologist
Vanessa: Yes.
Olivia N Atley: right? Anesthesiologist said he or she does not control that sterile space. Like, this is not correct. If we're going to say who's the leader of this birth, it's the OB, it's not the anesthesiologist, right? I think we should all know and be able to agree with that. that being said, I think that part of it is that afraid that our suggestions, our support, is going to interfere with their process.
Vanessa: That's what it always boils down to, even in the labor and delivery room.
Olivia N Atley: So it's like, tell me honestly, I want you to say it honestly. So we can now have a conversation, right? Let's talk about what your concern is. And then maybe we could get you to think a little differently of us. Maybe we could get you to understand that, um, it's hard doing things new or different, would it kill you to let the momma kiss her baby real quick? It's not that. It's, come on friends.
Vanessa: Yeah. And, you know, on this topic of belly births, I think letting the doulas into the surgical space is that stepping stone, but really let's, let's also, that's like bare minimum of what we should have, allowing. A third party support person be there to support both mom and dad, because again, when we talked earlier about birth partners, witnessing their loved one go through this experience, like what could be more shocking than being in an OR with your loved one, seeing them on a table with a curtain that you may or may not be able to see through.
Like that person needs support too and a lot of times those nurses and the anesthesiologists, they all have their job that they need to be doing and they don't need to be distracted by supporting that person. So we are actually taking a load off of them and having to just talk them through what's going on.
So they're not as scared or You know, holding dad's hand while he, he's losing it because his wife is, you know, going under anesthesia more deeply than he thought she would.
Olivia N Atley: Mm hmm. I was 18. I was just before the day before my 20th birthday when my second nephew was born via surgical birth. Guess who had to go into that room with their big sister? Nobody was, nobody else was there.
Vanessa: Wow.
Olivia N Atley: was like, I don't want anybody else in here. And I was like, what do you mean? He was
Vanessa: are the chosen one.
Olivia N Atley: I still
Vanessa: That escalated quickly.
Olivia N Atley: remember the day and here's my face like, and the doctor's like telling me the things and the nurse is saying the stuff. But I had to sit in that seat and just as you said, like there was no one to support me. And now one nurse did look at my face. And she goes, it's okay. This is normal. But she followed up real quickly with, and if you can't get it together, then you're gonna have to leave.
And I was like, I'm
Vanessa: Oh my goodness.
Olivia N Atley: thinking
Vanessa: Right.
Olivia N Atley: tomorrow, like I'm not even 20 yet. I'm still a teenager. Are you kidding me? it's just like, I can't imagine. And not that I care any less about my sister. But, imagine if that's someone's life partner, right? that's your daughter, that's different. Like, it's different. That's my sister. I cared about her, but I couldn't imagine if it was my And that's probably why she knew when my mom there.
Like, now that I think about it, like, she knew it would have been too much for
Vanessa: Mm hmm.
Olivia N Atley: Um, so, yeah. That's my number one right now. Um,
Vanessa: I was gonna say, um, I think another piece of it to aside from supporting the partner as well is literally there will come a point most often where they'll bring baby over to the warming station and the partner will feel very torn. Because they want to hold or touch their partner while they are getting sewn back up.
But then they also want to hold and see their baby and be with the baby so that they're not alone. And having a doula in the space to literally just sit and hold brother's hand or stand next to the warmer and say, I've got eyes on baby. Baby's doing great. This is what they're doing to baby right now.
Do you consent to this? You know, like those kinds of things. Because Needing to step away is really hard after you witness things in the OR room,
Olivia N Atley: no, that's, that's very valid. And I appreciate you like for bringing up that component because I don't even, I don't know what to say. It's, it's just so natural, like, to think that that's, those are the things that you would do, but hadn't really, like, thought it all the way through to verbalization to say, and this is the other reason why we're necessary and needed in that space. Um, and the idea that postpartum is enough. And I'm like, no, we, we missed like two hours of time,
Vanessa: where a lot of shit goes down.
Olivia N Atley: that part. And, you know, I had said it to, um, the OB. last of my, I had a birth last year that, um, unexpectedly turned to, uh, surgical birth and When I asked her about me being in the room, she's like, Oh no, that's not going to happen. I said, you do know that they paid me to be present with them their entire time. You're going to have to reconcile that with them. And she just looked at me like, how, what do you know? I said what I said and I meant it. paid for me to be here.
Vanessa: You have, you are contractually obligated to help them through this process.
Olivia N Atley: And the fact that you can say that I can't be a part of this, and you cannot and will not give any justifiable reasons. It's not fair to them and you, you need, I hope that you guys can have that conversation and that you can reconcile your relationship after that. Because
Vanessa: Good for you.
Olivia N Atley: like, that's disturbing.
Vanessa: It really is. Have you had much luck, um, in certain hospitals in the Columbus area and being able to get back
Olivia N Atley: Me, no.
Vanessa: as a private doula?
Olivia N Atley: Yeah. Um, no, just, uh, think that Some other doulas have been, and I've seen a few more here recently, and I'm cheering from the stands, like, yes, I'm so thankful, that needs to be the norm. Um, I think that some of it is, um, there is some bias. involved. And, um, because like when I gave the example of the birth, where the charge nurse concerned that the
Vanessa: Mm hmm. Mm
Olivia N Atley: they needed. Um, I had a white counterpart who was flabbergasted. She's like, you're kidding me. She said, have you seen? She's well, yeah, you have seen me in labor. Cause I was your doula. She's not, she didn't put hands on when she needs to put hands on, but that's why she was texting my boyfriend. Hey, okay. these things gonna be here a while.
So, and it wasn't just because it wasn't a matter of like him not doing things But she was like, I'm gonna give you some more Suggestions of other stuff because we've been there so long like alright, we've
Vanessa: hmm.
Olivia N Atley: things. Let's try let's try some of this But she was very clear. She's like, there's no way she's like I've never had a nurse or medical staff Asked me why I was sitting, basically. And I said, well, I mean, I knew what it was. I don't think she knew what she was doing. Sometimes people and their bias don't even realize that they have the
Vanessa: Right.
Olivia N Atley: I think that that plays a lot into resistance to even have the conversation, right? It's very clear, straight, cut, no, you're not coming in. I know white doulas who can have the conversation and you, they'll say like, man, they were on the edge. I almost had them saying yes. They still said no. They got me back into postpartum a lot faster. I was able to wait in postpartum versus having them come for me. Like, we're given some allowances that I haven't seen and I know other black doulas haven't seen.
Vanessa: And that's so unfortunate.
Olivia N Atley: It is. It is. So, you know, um, I, I think that there's a lot to be done within maternal health in our country and how we
Vanessa: Mm hmm.
Olivia N Atley: And I think the other, Is really taking a strong consideration into what team birth really looks like.
Vanessa: With the birther at the center and a full team. Mm hmm.
Olivia N Atley: Yeah, absolutely. And how do we begin to create these spaces where that is the norm, where that is the expectation it's not even facilitated by the birther, right? It's just the system.
Vanessa: Right.
Olivia N Atley: point, we all need to be at the same table. Yeah. And no one should feel offended, right? No one should feel off put by it, if my client has an OB, I should meet their OB before birth. If my client is going to, um, and this is something I started recently, if my client intends to breastfeed, I want
Vanessa: Mm hmm.
Olivia N Atley: lactation consultant before you are in trauma. I want you to have a relationship with them that you can call them, you can text them, and know that they're already ready and available for you.
Vanessa: That is excellent advice. That is part of building your village and the postpartum plan too, is to make those connections
Olivia N Atley: hmm.
Vanessa: prenatally so that at, to your point, usually when you're calling your lactation consultant, it's because you're working through an issue or there's something that, you know, is. Is not going the way that you thought it would and you don't need That trauma to be compounded by trying to search for somebody in the moment Weed through all of the different websites again the mental load the emotional load of that get that all up front and in your plan so that you know, and you meet with them because just like You'd interview, hopefully interview OBs and doulas and whatever, like make sure that you've got a right fit because you also don't want somebody showing up to your house or having to go to their office and they're feeling you up and you're like, I'm just, I don't feel safe right now with you.
That's what you don't want either. And then you're set back another week before you can find somebody else. So I love, that is excellent advice. Not only finding somebody, but making sure you meet and connect with them ahead of time so that they are the right fit for you.
Olivia N Atley: Yeah, because I just couldn't imagine like being, you know, having mastitis and not knowing who to call, and not having someone to be able to help and support immediately. Right. Like that would be very, disappointing and hard to work through. I just feel like that's just the whole of birth is that everyone is at the table before dinner is served.
Vanessa: Mm hmm.
Olivia N Atley: birth happens
Vanessa: Right?
Olivia N Atley: everyone has met each other and we all know our roles. And we know how to communicate and help support this family in the best way because, you know, I've, I don't think it's the only issue, but like when I think of like specifically, it's like sometimes the OB doesn't even know.
Vanessa: Mm hmm.
Olivia N Atley: they intend to breastfeed. And if they don't know, that means the rest of that clinical staff probably doesn't know at the hospital. So what are they going to do? They're going to get a baby formula. They don't know. And they
Vanessa: Yeah.
Olivia N Atley: know to say, maybe you should call Kelly. Have you talked to Kelly yet? Does she know that you delivered?
Vanessa: Right.
Olivia N Atley: Just a quick reminder. Hey. If things aren't going well for you, you need to make sure you give Kelly a call in the morning.
Vanessa: Right.
Olivia N Atley: Now,
Vanessa: And that's,
Olivia N Atley: that, but also the whole team should be doing it.
Vanessa: yes, absolutely. And you could birth at any time in the day if you're having a hospital birth. And the hospital, IBCLC, might not be, there might not be one overnight. And you might not, they're going to have to do their full runs the next morning. So you might not see an IBCLC for, I don't know, 12, 18, 24 hours.
Olivia N Atley: If you have that baby on a Friday night, you might not see one at all.
Vanessa: Yeah. Cause you could be discharged before they even make another round. Um, so yeah, absolutely. Having somebody that you can reach out to immediately and get immediate help is so paramount to a successful breastfeeding journey. Um, those first few days and weeks I know are very difficult. Admittedly, I, I have a hard time speaking on breastfeeding because I chose to formula feed my son from day one for a multitude of reasons.
Olivia N Atley: Mm
Vanessa: And. But I will tell my, uh, Mount Carmel doula clients is after they give birth and we're, you know, making sure they're cozy and baby is latched. And, um, I'll say, make sure that you advocate for a visit from the lactation counselor immediately when you get into postpartum and you keep asking.
Until they come, it's even, um, you know, if you don't have a good education of what it's supposed to be like, you could think everything's going fine and not realize. So even just having eyes before you leave the hospital, I think can be comforting for parents. Um, and they don't know, they don't necessarily know to advocate for that or that, you know, if they don't ask five times, they might.
You know, skip the rounds or, or whatever, but,
Olivia N Atley: Absolutely. I wholeheartedly agree. And I just feel like, you know, having that continuity of care just really helps families be more successful. It
Vanessa: mm hmm,
Olivia N Atley: more comfortable through the process. Um,
Vanessa: space,
Olivia N Atley: yeah. And I, and I, I know it sounds silly, but know, The very direct name reference makes me believe that you are in tune to my plan and my process. Now you could have just looked at my chart before you walked in the room and said, ah, Dr. Green is Her pediatrician, that's fine. that you took the time to do that is great. But, if there's a communication circle happening, there's no question. Like, and I feel more confident, I feel better. I mean, I know Sara Youngest had a short stay in the NICU, we were struggling to get an appointment with the pediatrician. And we're like, he's a preemie, come on. Like,
Vanessa: right?
Olivia N Atley: what is the, this shouldn't be hard, friends. So. The pediatrician at the hospital, we, of course, we identified this, like, this is one of our, our only hiccups right now in being able to take him home is not having a pediatrician appointment. next morning in rounds, that doctor had called the pediatrician and said, this baby needs to be seen immediately, first thing on Monday morning, and got the appointment. that's what it should look like.
Vanessa: You shouldn't have to, to have to advocate for it, but unfortunately, um, that's, that's the way it is for so many different modalities throughout the process.
Olivia N Atley: Yes, unfortunately, unfortunately.
Vanessa: Yeah.
Olivia N Atley: Those are my two things I would change.
I think things would be good to talk about potentially. Um, like how do we fund or how do we pay for doula services
so I, you know, I think it's really important to talk about the fact that doula services are not free. And costs range, right? There
Vanessa: Mm hmm.
Olivia N Atley: considerable range, and that's going to depend on what a doula is offering and providing. Um, there's just like some baseline things that we as doulas do, and then people start to, you know, add things on.
So, you know, I have, um, herbal remedies that I provide for my clients at each visit. I do the Reiki. I do the meditation. So that's embedded into my cost.
Vanessa: Mm hmm.
Olivia N Atley: think what happens is that people see the cost and then they're like, Nope, can't do that. Won't do that. Um, know, I believe in saving so like, you know, you're going to have a kid. Put some money away for all of the things including the do like it should be a part of it. Like if you know you want to have a doula start putting money away. If you're caught off guard like most of us are and you haven't done that, that's okay. but just a reminder that like you can use your HSA, you can use your FSA dollars for your doula care. If you're in a space where you think that, um, you could potentially have a baby in the next two years, once you get your next open enrollment,
Vanessa: yep,
Olivia N Atley: your HSA or your FSA then,
Vanessa: mhm,
Olivia N Atley: Um, so you have the money there. So you're, like, you There's nothing worse than like missing that open enrollment and then you get pregnant and you're like, I
Vanessa: yeah, mhm, mhm, mhm, mhm, mhm, mhm, mhm, mhm, mhm,
Olivia N Atley: a great asset. And the cool thing with the FSA specifically is you can also use those funds for several of your maternal And postpartum needs like your nursing products,
Vanessa: mhm,
Olivia N Atley: men and hygiene items that you would need some of them like there's the FSA store is literally called FSA store dot com and that resource is amazing because then you can like you can see what your funds can actually be used for.
Vanessa: It's guaranteed to be covered.
Olivia N Atley: Yes, and then you also have like you can use that for your prenatal vitamins if you're fancy Like me you got the fancy vitamin it costs sixty dollars a month. That's a lot of money. Go ahead and
Vanessa: Alright.
Olivia N Atley: That's really what spent my fsa down was my prenatal vitamins I was not doing anything.
They gave me a sample. It's I didn't gag. I wasn't sick. We'll stick with this one that was vitapurl friends. If you ever want to know
Vanessa: Okay, yeah. I was just gonna ask, Vita Pro, you said?
Olivia N Atley: It's not chalky, it's literally a, a capsule, it's about yay big, that much, yeah. down perfectly fine, no issues.
Vanessa: Awesome.
Olivia N Atley: but then, people don't use this resource like your baby registry.
Vanessa: Mm hmm. Mm hmm.
Olivia N Atley: your baby registry so that people can pay towards that. It's not the expects. And so I can't remember the one that we used, but most of them nowadays offer, like, you can put a large ticket item on there and people can just pay towards it. So if
Vanessa: Like, contribute.
Olivia N Atley: Mm hmm. People can contribute. You can do the same thing with doula services. So, um, I encourage people to put that on there so people know specifically. And I'm, I like to use a little bit of, I don't know what kind of psychology it is. My son will tell me he's a psychology major. But don't put things on there like the fun cutesy stuff.
Don't put that on there. Leave all of that off of your baby registry,
Vanessa: Mm hmm.
Olivia N Atley: put on there your doula services, your stroller, your crib, the car seat, if there's some real nice, I don't care what kind it is, but if you have a specific bottling system,
Vanessa: Mm hmm.
Olivia N Atley: system on there. If you know that you are going to make baby's food, put that baby food maker on there.
Leave that other stuff off.
Vanessa: I would say don't put any clothes on your baby registry. Auntie's gonna buy you the clothes she wants to buy you anyway, but make sure that you've got stuff you need on first.
Olivia N Atley: auntie's gonna buy you the clothes every single time. Um, and your uncle, he's buying all of the trucks, friends. You said you want trucks? Here come the trucks. I don't need to detail for you which trucks to buy. Um, but when you put the things that are most important on there, your family sees, like, oh, this is what they need. Now don't get me wrong, you're gonna get questions. People are gonna call you and text you, like, Why are there nursing bras on here? Because I need nursing bras.
Vanessa: And they're expensive.
Olivia N Atley: you asked, but I need it. That's what I need. Oh, well, I don't see pacifiers on here. Yeah, don't worry about that. We got that. If you want to buy a pacifier, you can cash app us.
It's okay.
Vanessa: Yeah, my husband, for my son, who's now five, when I was pregnant with him, we did a lot of second handing, um, baby items, especially things like, like I got the baby Bjorn bouncer, so I'm like, we don't know if he's gonna like it, and that's an expensive thing, so if he doesn't like it, like, Okay, or we could borrow friends other things and then if he likes it, we'll, we'll get it later.
But I found myself constantly getting asked like, Oh, you don't have this on your registry. I'm going to get you that. I was like, well, no, we have it. It was just bought secondhand. So I put things on a registry and then showed that they were bought just so people realize that we got it covered. We don't need 10 of these.
Olivia N Atley: a really good friend. She, um, Her younger cousin got pregnant and she called me to tell me these things and I was like, oh gracious. She was like, she had a whole bunch of stupid stuff on there. I'm not buying her anything on that birth, on that registry.
And I was like, I'm afraid to ask what you're referring to. Well, what are you getting her instead? Well, I just know what she needs. And I said, uh, um, you? I would believe she knows what she needs or wants. Right, at least we know what's on her registry is what she want. She's like, oh no, whatever it was She's like I needed these things and I had my kids and I'm buying them for her regardless and I was like, okay let me know how that actually don't let me know how that works out.
I have a feeling it's not gonna go so swiftly because do that. They're like, oh, well her registry didn't have onesies. I'm buying onesies.
Vanessa: Yeah, yeah, our thing was we got a whole bunch of like changing pad covers and I'm like they weren't on the registry because we got A kikaroo that you just wipe because I didn't want to have to wash all of those things. So that's why those weren't on the registry.
Olivia N Atley: Wasn't it? So that's my thing. It's like you spent money on things that we really didn't need and we need these things See
Vanessa: Mm hmm.
Olivia N Atley: that you, like the people ask, where's your registry? Like do that. So whole community of all people ever listening to this podcast, please get what's on your friend's registry
Vanessa: Yeah,
Olivia N Atley: or your best,
Vanessa: absolutely.
Olivia N Atley: cousin, your family member, whoever, just
Vanessa: And I, when I say I'm a researcher, I dive deep. And so you best believe that stroller I put on my registry, I test drove all of the strollers multiple times in multiple different scenarios. And that is the one that I chose for various reasons. And Yeah. So car seat stroller, like some of those big ticket items, people invest a lot of thought into choosing which one they feel is right for them and their family.
So respect that.
Olivia N Atley: Yep, please. That, that really helps. Mm
Vanessa: But yes, I love the, um, the concept of putting services like a doula or postpartum doula.
Olivia N Atley: hmm.
Vanessa: even childbirth education classes, if you have, if you know who you want to take it through or whatever.
Olivia N Atley: Yeah,
Vanessa: Um,
Olivia N Atley: your
Vanessa: Those kinds of things.
Olivia N Atley: them on
Vanessa: Yes.
Olivia N Atley: If you're going the midwifery route, put midwifery care on there. Like, it's fair game, friends. Yes.
Vanessa: talked, we've touched on this a little bit, but like those services and these, if somebody else can't come hold your baby for you or do the other things, put That as a service for people, maybe they live far away, maybe they're long distance and they want to know how they can serve you best.
They can help contribute to those services that are expensive, but will help take that load off of you without needing to be there in person to do that.
Olivia N Atley: I love it. Absolutely. Yeah.
Vanessa: Um, okay. So what else we touched on the HSA FSA baby registry, how, what other creative ways do you have to fund, um, things like a doula?
Olivia N Atley: Oh, I don't know how we could have forgotten to say this, but the obvious is your insurance, right?
Vanessa: Mm hmm.
Olivia N Atley: So if you have private insurance, you have a potential opportunity to do a super bill. And most people don't know about this because they just don't think that doula services could potentially be covered by your insurance company. There are some insurance companies, don't make me name which ones, cause I haven't seen them yet that provide, let me say private, that provide coverage for doula care outright. if you present that super bill to them, which is a complete itemization of all of the care provided by the doula, you have a higher likelihood of getting that reimbursed. It's probably
Vanessa: Right.
Olivia N Atley: bit of time, but I'm always happy to do a super bill for my clients. I just pull it straight from my contract. These are all the things. That were provided. These are how many visits, right? So
Vanessa: Mm hmm.
Olivia N Atley: not a whole lot of extra work for me as a doula to present or prepare a super bill. You also have some employers that do provide um, a doula benefit through them directly. Um,
Vanessa: Like a carrot program.
Olivia N Atley: yes. Um, and I'm not really familiar with Carrot, but that's a quick answer. Yes. But Walmart also provides. um, a doula
Vanessa: Okay. Okay.
Olivia N Atley: A lot of companies are offering this additional benefit. So it's just a matter of asking if the answer is no, you're, you're not any, any worse off place, You just know that that's not available. Also
Vanessa: I would encourage every sorry, just to interrupt real quick. I would encourage that. In conversations around insurance and benefits and everything with your employer, to your point, you don't know until you ask and they don't know it's a want unless people step up to ask for enough so that they can advocate with the powers that be to add it to the benefits.
Olivia N Atley: yes.
Vanessa: unless they get, you know, people coming forward and asking and requesting for this, you feel it would be really beneficial. And these are the reasons why. You know, the likelihood of it changing is slim. So , the worst that can happen is they say no, but the best that could happen is that you could be a trailblazer for birthing people and parents in the future, um, that you coming forward and asking and requesting and sharing the benefits of it could help HR realize and add it to their benefits for that next open enrollment period.
Olivia N Atley: And I think that it's, it's a daunting task, but it's really far easier than you think that it is. With a former employer, on a wellness committee, so we were talking about different things to provide to staff. And I started listing stuff and oh my gosh, our HR rep, when she was like feverishly writing, she's like, oh my god, I never thought like we should think of these things. And I said yes, because these are benefits that are not provided with our insurance. So if we're getting free yoga classes here on campus, then we don't have to Not that we wouldn't go anywhere else, but like, we don't have to really go anywhere else. We know at least once a week we can get this here. If we also know that there's a benefit for acupuncture and massage already built into our benefits package, then I don't, it's not, okay, so That's fine that the insurance doesn't cover it.
Vanessa: Right.
Olivia N Atley: not really, but we have the benefit here through our job, so we still have the benefit. So, you said, sometimes it's just a very simple conversation, and if they don't know, they can't help.
Vanessa: Right. And I think too, those that like, Carat is a big one now that we're hearing around Columbus, cause a lot of the big retail corporations
Olivia N Atley: Is that
Vanessa: are starting to add, yeah, and it's, I believe it's set up similar to an insurance plan, but it's in addition to like a supplementary plan where they, they deal directly with those kinds of services, but it's seen as a competitive benefit advantage for companies to add those things.
Because when you're comparing apples to apples for top tier talent, those things matter. And that's part of the, um, you know, comprehensive, Package of, you know, an offer is what are those benefits? And so, um, if you take that approach to when you approach your HR department around it, this is a competitive advantage from a benefit standpoint, in attracting top tier talent,
Olivia N Atley: Absolutely. And so, and of course, here in the state of Ohio, Medicaid has officially approved the coverage of doula care and support. So that means that, um, each of those managed care plans. potentially has doulas that can be utilized for, um, patient or client care. So, you know, it's not just private. And I almost believe, like, You have more of a benefit Medicaid than you do in your private insurance because you know that it exists. You know that it can be provided through that. It's just a matter of, and I haven't, not really sure just yet how it's being rolled out to enrollees, information where they, and how they find said doulas. But, um, so if you know, that's great.
Vanessa: I don't
Olivia N Atley: So, uh, I'm still, I'm working to learn that end of it. As of yet, but, you know, a matter of knowing whether your specific managed care plan has doulas in your area
Vanessa: gotcha.
Olivia N Atley: to serve, so hopefully folks will find and be able to maneuver through the, the process and the flow to be able to, you know, secure a doula for their care and get that benefit.
Vanessa: What keeps you passionate and motivated to keep going every day? Oh,
Olivia N Atley: This is the moment that I'm glad that I have my handkerchief. Um, I hope that in a hundred years, when books are written about birth work, the year 2025 and beyond, that it doesn't sound like it's still 1862. And that means that we just have to take seriously question, every concern, every need, every desire. Our country just has spent so much time not listening to people in general in medical spaces. They really don't listen to women.
Vanessa: Really don't listen to black women and women of color.
Olivia N Atley: have a niece who is, she's 11. She's gonna have a baby one day. And I don't want to be sitting in the waiting room nervous and scared. My sons will potentially give me grandchildren. I, I will fight tooth and nail for my niece, but my grandchildren, that's a different fight. And I don't want to, like
Vanessa: Mm-hmm
Olivia N Atley: don't want to have that feeling or that sensation that that's necessary, that we need to be on guard, that families, that families shouldn't feel that way. Families should not be afraid for their loved one to go into, you know, into labor. So I wake up every day. Going and walking into spaces where I'm not wanted, and I walk into spaces people didn't expect that you would have a doula coming in, being any part of the conversation or the work with that in mind, with my niece and my future grandchildren. Because in a hundred years, those books need to say different things. Um, and it's why I read the crazy, I don't want to say
Vanessa: Mm-hmm
Olivia N Atley: why I read the disturbing factual information that I read, right? read the medical apartheid on
Vanessa: Mm-hmm
Olivia N Atley: I read killing the black body on purpose. I read, um, things like legacy on purpose. On purpose. It's hard to read. It is hard. It takes me longer.
I gotta put it down. I gotta process. I gotta take care of myself along the way. But I read that on purpose because I need to know where we used to be. And I see that we've only moved this far away from it. We still have doctors using metal speculums? What's wrong with the trash?
Vanessa: Get rid of them all.
Olivia N Atley: I don't know that we could melt them into a ball of something to throw somewhere, but like, get out of here. You mean you're not giving any type of, uh, or sedation for an IUD insertion? Ugh. No.
Vanessa: Right.
Olivia N Atley: It's not 1862. We need to advance. So, that's, that's what keeps me very passionate, very focused. Because And I don't think I'm the only person, but that's mine. And then I think that there's other children will one day have children.
Vanessa: Mm hmm.
Olivia N Atley: And at the end of the day, like I said, no family should be afraid. Like that shouldn't be a fear. Giving birth, shouldn't be a fear. And I feel like that's only our thing. It doesn't happen overseas like that.
Vanessa: Exactly.
Olivia N Atley: I feel like they would laugh at us. Like, you're scared? I mean, they know our circumstances now. 10, 15 years ago, when social media and the internet wasn't as vast as it is now, I think they would have laughed.
Like, why would you be scared to give birth? In the United States of all places. It doesn't make sense, and it shouldn't be.
Vanessa: Right.
Olivia N Atley: That is why I'm still here.
Vanessa: I love it. And I,
Olivia N Atley: you.
Vanessa: I can see that passion and obviously you're getting emotional sharing that. So thank you for being vulnerable and sharing that. And it is such important work that, that you're doing, um, that doulas anywhere. If you're a doula listening right now, if you're anywhere in the birth working space, it's important work that we do.
And it, it impacts. Generations, um, what we do to help birthers avoid or get ahead of birth traumas, that birth trauma is generational, um, systemic racism is multi generational and if you can move that needle any little bit, you know, it's, it's worth it as a collective. We can keep moving that needle. It's important work that we do.
Olivia N Atley: Yes, it
Vanessa: Um, I feel like I'm emotional for this Libby, like you're, I just, I, I feel your passion coming through. So I appreciate that.
Olivia N Atley: Yeah, no, thank you for, you know, asking that question. It's not that people often, you know, even think to really talk about or, or dive into. And I think sometimes we can be, we try to find like that very palatable response, like, Oh,
Vanessa: Mm hmm.
Olivia N Atley: this. I don't know what anyone would say, but, um, I think sometimes we often get afraid to say that, you know, because of the ugly stuff,
“This is my top one: Doulas should be allowed in surgical spaces.”