The Briggs: From Infertility to an Unmedicated Hospital Birth Story

birth story
Written By Vanessa Bauman

In this episode of the Breath and Birth Co. podcast, Brianna and Zak Briggs join us from Iowa. They candidly share their path to parenthood, dealing with infertility and advocating for the right care, ultimately leading to the unmedicated hospital birth of their son, Landon. They discuss the importance of holistic care approaches involving acupuncture, chiropractic care, and extensive childbirth education. Brianna provides insights into labor positions, the impact of partner support, and navigating the postpartum phase. This episode is rich with advice on trusting your intuition, informed consent, and preparing for birth holistically.

  • Northeast Iowa Practioners & Birthworkers Referenced:

    Additional resources discussed:

    • 00:00:00 Welcome to the Breath and Birth Co. Podcast

    • 00:00:47 Introducing Brianna and Zach's Journey

    • 00:01:36 Struggles with Infertility and Advocacy

    • 00:04:44 Exploring Alternative Medicine

    • 00:06:40 Acupuncture and Conception

    • 00:09:27 Pregnancy Journey and Preparations

    • 00:15:09 Birth Classes and Partner Involvement

    • 00:34:16 Navigating Early Labor

    • 00:48:03 The Struggles of Early Labor

    • 00:48:54 Navigating Hospital Protocols

    • 00:50:04 Coping Mechanisms and Support

    • 00:51:25 The Intensity of Transition

    • 00:53:20 The Final Push and Delivery

    • 00:55:47 Postpartum Challenges and Recovery

    • 01:17:46 Breastfeeding Struggles and Solutions

    • 01:31:49 Reflections and Advice for New Parents

    • 01:37:48 Final Thoughts and Encouragement

  • Vanessa: Welcome to the Breath and Birth Co. podcast. I'm Vanessa, a hospital based, DONA- International certified birth doula, and passionate childbirth educator. I love to merge the power of your intuition with the precision of modern medicine to help you navigate pregnancy and birth your way. Each week we kick off with Monday meditations to bring calm and connection to your pregnancy.

    Then we build your confidence through insights, birth stories, and care provider perspectives during thoughtful Thursdays. Ready to feel supported, informed, and empowered? Hit subscribe to the Breath and Birth Co. podcast today and let's embark on this transformational journey together. As a reminder, any information shared here is not medical advice.

    For more details, visit breathandbirthco. com slash disclaimer.

    For today's episode, I've got Brianna and Zach Briggs joining me from Iowa to share about their path to parenthood, which included infertility, lots of advocacy, building out a care team beyond their midwife, plenty of childbirth education and trusting their intuition, which culminated in the beautiful unmedicated hospital birth of their son, Landon.

    I so appreciate their openness and vulnerability sharing their story to help break down stigmas and so that they can, so others can learn from their experience. Hopefully you learned from episode one, where I review my own endo journey, that I am all about breaking down stigmas and sharing knowledge so others can gain help faster, more effectively, and understand that they are not alone.

    fertility journey.

    Bri: Okay. So , we knew we wanted children. I'd been on birth control since high school, college, 10 plus years. Um, I had gotten off of it. A couple years in advance, just because I knew it would take my body time to fluctuate through all of the hormones and get back into normal.

    So, I had done that, , and then June of last year we decided we would start trying actively. , that month we decided my cycles decided they didn't want to work anymore. After they were perfectly normal. I mean, they weren't perfect to begin with, but they were in a set schedule. So I waited, gave myself some time.

    Um, still nothing. , I was seeing midwives at the hospital here because I knew I wanted a midwife for my pregnancy, , and birth. So when we moved here to Iowa, I had just decided I'm going to go with a midwife, not a, gynecologist.

    Vanessa: huh.

    Bri: Um, so I went and saw them about the cycles disappearing.

    They're like, Oh, we can just wait it out. Or we can give you a pill to jumpstart it. So I was like, okay, let me just jumpstart it. So it's going into August. I take the pill and it worked and then they disappear again. So I reached back out to them. They're like, okay, let's run some blood work. We'll check your thyroid comes back from having a thyroid issue.

    So I get diagnosed with that. They get me on the medicine. Um, waiting for the cycles to get back in sync. They don't, so I'm having like 60 plus days cycles, which isn't normal at all. , and they're like, well, there's nothing at this point we can do. You're going to have to wait because you told us you're trying to get pregnant.

    We can't help you with your cycles. You have to wait the year, before we can refer you to anybody. I was like, no,

    Vanessa: that too, that, that 12 month time clock starts and nobody will talk to you before then.

    Bri: yeah, just all because I said we were trying to get pregnant. And they're like, sorry, we can't do anything further. So I was like, no, that's how you expect me to get pregnant. If my cycles aren't working, right. Like something's obviously not working. Um, so I did a bunch of research learning more about like how cycles should actually function because no one teaches you that, , like when you're supposed to ovulate and how all those different cycles work.

    Vanessa: Was specifically that you found helpful during that time, like a book or?

    Bri: there was a book. I can't remember the name of it. Um, and I actually ended up never finishing it, but I was like going through it and it was written from the perspective of an acupuncturist. Um, and how she treats these ladies with all these fertility issues and helps them. And she used to be in nursing before she went into acupuncture.

     That got me started. Okay. Let me look into this. Let me look into Eastern medicine because they treat the entire body, not just. a symptom.

    Vanessa: Right. Mm hmm. Mm hmm. Mm hmm. Mm

    Bri: So, um, so that started that. I was researching all of that going down this rabbit hole. So we're in like October, November.

    So I'm like, okay, I really think I should try this. So I start looking in our area for acupuncturists. Um, and I was specifically looking for ones that specialize in fertility and ones with reviews. Cause I didn't want to go to one if there were no reviews. For me to look at, I'd never done acupuncture before.

    So, um, we didn't have anything here close. I did find one, about an hour away, which is. Perfectly normal to me to have to drive an hour to get to big city. ,

    Vanessa: For the listeners, too, they're in Iowa, just as reference.

    Bri: yes, yes. A small town in Iowa. And then, uh, about an hour from one of the, a decent size cities. , so I decided to go to her. I made my first appointment. I think it was like end of Christmas week. When I made that appointment, I was like 60 plus days in my cycle. I went and saw her, she talked me through like everything she does.

    She's like, I expect she's like for, , my clients, I typically see them getting pregnant within two to three months of treatments. , she said it typically takes. Eight sessions you can do those as often as you want or space them out as you need to so I did that I went to her and the pressure Points that she uses is based on where you're at in your cycle

    so the first appointment I told her where I was at kind of stuck and as soon as Um the next day after my appointment my period started so i'm like, okay, she's kick started this cycle So then I was going It was crazy.

    So I, cause I was like kind of iffy, like, is it really going to work?

    Vanessa: Right.

    Bri: but I was like seeing some, seeing something happen the next day, really kind of like, okay, let's see if it's really going to work. So, um, I think I was going once, once a week or once every two weeks. I can't remember, I made it through two full cycles with acupuncture working the way it should. Um, and then we got pregnant, like she said, two to, it was probably about three ish months in. ,

    Vanessa: So that third, basically third ovulation of a regular cycle right after you started. amazing.

    Bri: , so I'm like, okay, this is, it's proven it's helping whatever Points that she's hitting. We also, does nutrition. So she ran my blood work, checked all of my nutrition, checked my thyroid. Cause she said the doctors don't check like the full panel for thyroids. They only check certain ones.

     She got me on a better prenatal. She didn't like the ones I had been taking. , she got me on a. Zinc and some droplets like iodine and vitamin D Um, those types of supplements. And then there was also a, um, this capsule top of my thyroid, which is basically crushed up animal livers or something,

    Vanessa: Mm hmm. Yep, desiccated liver, I think it is.

    Bri: yeah, so that helped with my thyroid, um, and also learning that the thyroid is connected to, your fertility, all of these organs, more, it's connected to more things than you think it is, but.

    Vanessa: Absolutely. Like, so many times I'll hear people off a whole bunch of symptoms, and my first reaction is, did you get your thyroid checked? Because honestly, it impacts all of those things, and you would never realize that until it's off. And then once you get a good place, either through diet, lifestyle, and I myself did that and am on a low dose levothyroxine. It was like, oh, this is what life is supposed to feel like. Um, yeah, it's amazing how much the thyroid can impact in all of your systems.

    Bri: Yeah, and I didn't even, like, I didn't have the normal symptoms of a low thyroid at all.

    So, yeah, so we got pregnant. I, continued with acupuncture throughout the pregnancy. I ended up spacing it out, in the middle of the pregnancy. I spaced out the acupuncture. But the pressure point stayed the same through the entire pregnancy, from conception until the last week I went.

    Could have done, um, pressure points help me with nausea, but I was pretty lucky that I didn't get super nauseous. It was like in the I would have a day here and there, in the first trimester. So, I didn't end up using the acupuncture for that, even though I could have, if I, if I needed to.

     But yeah, the first trimester I had it pretty easy, which I think the acupuncture contributed to that. 

    Ended up getting food aversions towards the end, which was,

    thing because like my favorite foods, I just could not handle it all.

    Um, yeah, then the first trimester went pretty easy. Second trimester, still pretty easy. I started, chiropractic

    Vanessa: Mm-hmm

    Bri: in this semester with her. She just did all of this, the same lady. Um, acupuncture, the nutrition and the chiropractic, which she was Webster certified.

    Vanessa: That's awesome that you found a one-stop shop.

    Bri: Yeah, yes. Um, so, uh, I started that in the second trimester still, I was thinking I was going doing that like once a month, just spacing it out, getting myself used to it. 

     In the second trimester, I was researching, um, for things in the area that I could attend, like classes. And, I was kind of hoping for some exercise classes, like the prenatal yoga or anything like that. And then also, , attending birth classes, but we didn't have anything here local that I could find. I searched and searched and searched. , I went,

    Vanessa: Mm-hmm

    Bri: looked in the bigger cities, and they had a couple things, but it, like the timing didn't work out with.

    Work schedule and the travel to get there and husband schedule. Um, there was no way we could have made that happen in the hour to two hour drive to the bigger cities. So I'm still like looking online, researching different things that I can find, looking at like my progress of how the baby's growing, how my body's changing week by week. and then towards the end of the second trimester, I happened to come across. There's a, like a non profit women's organization out here. 

    Vanessa: Mm-hmm

    Bri: They were hosting a, like a short intro to birth class it was like an hour long hour and a half long. , so I signed up for that our hospital offered two classes an intro to birth with A tour of the birthing suites and then also a breastfeeding class , like an intro to breastfeeding and all of that, that's all the hospital offered. I asked the, the midwives, if there was any other classes thinking, oh, they're local.

    They're gonna know more than we do. 'cause we've only been here about two years now. They didn't have anything. The one midwife, uh, told me about evidence-based, uh, podcasts, which I started listening to that really inspiring. , I really. Liked the water birth stories those resonated the most , so I was hoping our hospital would do that, but our state doesn't allow water births legally in a corporate setting you could if you did like a home birth.

    Vanessa: setting. Yeah, right, yeah.

    Bri: Yeah um So I started listening to the podcast we went and attended the um, the intro to birth class at the non profit in august, um, And then the lady who was teaching it ended up being a local doula, which I had looked at, um, doulas here in the area and their websites were outdated. So I was like, kind of iffy, like, are they still in business?

    Are they still doing anything? So like, I didn't reach out to any of them or anything. Um, but we,

    Vanessa: you're listening, make sure your website's updated.

    Bri: yes, yes. The copyright down at the bottom, if it says 2018 and there's nothing new posted, it looks like you're not in business anymore. Um, but yes, we went to this class in August. Cause the hospital classes weren't until October. They did, they do like weird, like calendar, like first quarter, second quarter, third, like they

    Vanessa: Gotcha.

    Bri: it set up super weird.

    The hospital.

    Vanessa: due in November, so that would have been too long to wait.

    Bri: Yeah. Yeah. So I'm like, I need something else. So I, we did the nonprofit in. I believe it was August. Um, we went, we ended up being the only couple signed up for it. So we got sort of like a personalized, uh, intro with her, went through it. Zak did really good asking a ton of questions. I wasn't expecting him to get as involved in.

    And, um, she ended up like giving us her information and she's like, Oh, I've got these classes coming up. Um, cause she does hers. in segments too. I think she has three segments a year or two segments a year. Um, and I'm like, okay, it's like a little late for us, but let's just do it anyways. 

    Zak: Pop in on that.

    So for any guys in here, women who are looking to get their guys involved in this type of stuff, , When Bri first brought it to my attention, I was like, what is this hippie crap? Um, I was like, why would we take a class that's going to go against everything the doctor is going to tell us? Like, I'm not a doctor.

    I haven't gone to school to be a doctor. Why would I? Push back on somebody who has done it, but, , I was, forced into taking it and you learn a ton, um, and you learn about, a lot of things you can do to help your wife, which I think that's the most, the biggest takeaway from it.

    But, , and we'll get into, uh, How you utilize those things when she gets into the birth story. But, uh, some of that kind of goes out the window in the moment, but, um, a lot of it is, it's really, really good. Now the knowledge I have, especially for the women on here who are going through their first birth or first pregnancy.

    And looking to do natural or women who've had multiple children, but haven't done natural yet, definitely something that's well worth it in my opinion.

    Vanessa: Yeah. Do you feel like attending the class, Zak gave you at least the confidence? I know you said some of it gets thrown out the window in the moment, but do you feel like you walked into that hospital room feeling a little bit more confident in

    Zak: Absolutely.

    Vanessa: that you had and that you did have options and that you could say no to anything and that you could have a discussion before feeling pressured?

    Zak: Absolutely. And there was moments in there where they say we're going to do this and I'm like, ah, no, we're, we would like to avoid that if possible. Like what's, where's the benefit. Is there any risk if we don't like, but we would prefer to not do that. , and , they listen. I mean, they, if there's no.

    Major issue that could arise from it. There was no pushback on any of that stuff. It was just, okay, cool. That's what you want to do. That's what you want to do. 

    Vanessa: To hear. Right.

    Bri: to the intro class. She told us about her classes. We came home and I was looking at it and I had come across like mentioned of the Bradley and all natural, which is more like Eastern medicine.

    And like you said, he calls it the hippie. , And he was making fun of me for getting a little hippie. I had, uh, changed over the laundry detergent, was like slowly changing stuff and he didn't like it, but I was like, I will do anything to try to make things work. But, um, so we were talking about it, like, is this class beneficial or not?

    So as we were debating it, I was like, well, I was like, it teaches you like risks and benefits and what you can say no to. And I was like, If we're in the hospital and I can't think to process what they're saying, I need you to be the, like, the reasoning behind that decision. Like, you're gonna have to make the decision for me, not just go with what they want to do.

    Like, you have to ask. And he's like, why? And I'm like, why?

    Vanessa: to help be your advocate, essentially, knowing what

    Bri: that's right. That's why he said why, why would I do that? They're the doctor. They're, they're the professional and I'm like, no, it's like depending on like, you could be lucky and have a great doctor who is true and actually cares, or you're just gonna have someone who wants to just get through the day and like end their shift kind of thing.

    Um, so that's what I was like, I, I really think we should do these classes and like, it's our first, we don't really know what to expect. Fact or anything like it'll help prepare us a little more in type a personality that I am. I want all the information

    Vanessa: Yep. Yeah.

    Bri: those And again, it was a little late.

    Um, I wish we had been able to get in a little sooner Like I said second trimester. I had some Low back pain that the adjustments only helped for a short amount of time The bradley classes gave us exercises and the pelvic tilt immediately removed my back pain You I did those multiple times a day. I was like, I wish I would have known this clear back in the beginning.

    Uh, but they gave us, uh, exercises to help prepare the body. It was a series of 12 classes. Um, each class had their own like chapter section. We went through, vocabulary that taught us, terms and endorphin names and, all the stuff that interventions, hospital interventions, do cause, um, an intervention rabbit hole,

    Vanessa: The

    Bri: that you can go down, yes, um, they taught us all of that, and like, how it affects everything in your natural hormones, and endorphins, and how that affects your pain, um, Um, we, they, each class is broken down.

    Like we went into the sections of labor. Um, they gave us positionings that we could do to help us with labor. The, the proper positions to open your pelvis, to get him through versus like some of the older ways of laying on your back, which of course is. You're going against gravity. It's not going to work.

    Um,

    Vanessa: Least effective position. Mm-hmm

    Bri: yes. Um, and then we also had, with those classes, the husband based, uh, what is it? Husband, husband based. Yeah. That's been coached childbirth. Um, that book we were reading as you're going through the classes so that your husband or your partner, whoever's going to be there helping you. Um, through the labor and learn, um, and that book had a lot of like Dr.

    Bradley, like how he got into it, um, how he ended up teaching it and his progression with his first set of parents. And then their interest in it and how it just kind of expanded throughout. And, um, all of these. little tidbits and techniques that can help you and like what we're going through carrying the child.

    , what we're going through in the labor, , all of that, this book is teaching him and, uh, it was good. We had an in person class. We had a group with four or five couples total, was it? 

    Zak: Just around. Four couples went to five. Then it went to six and went back to five. 

    Bri: Yeah, which was good. It was nice having those other there. They were all doing January, though, of course, because I was late to the late.

    Vanessa: So yeah. get to be the guru for them. Now. They'll be reaching out to you with for

    Bri: Yeah,

    Vanessa: a few weeks.

    Bri: yeah. So it was it was good. And we also, um, they were big on nutrition. , so we like monitored what we were eating every week. And she would talk us talk to us about it at the end of each class and how we felt. So you had to hit like, So much protein a day, like so many fruits, veggies, all of that.

    Protein was the hardest for me. I, my entire pregnancy, I wasn't like one of those ones that was starving. I was like barely fit anything in my stomach. I felt like I had no room. So it was hard to hit the protein. Yeah. She's also allergic to eggs, but you want to make sure you eat your eggs. Lots of eggs, good fat, good protein.

    Yes, that's uh, one of the, it would have been an easy protein hit if I could have, if I could have ate them.

    Vanessa: Yeah, as you know, I'm in the same boat. I was vegan and, gluten free and a bunch of other things at the time. And it was really difficult for me even to find, like, I was trying protein shakes or protein powder and to mix into my own drinks and finding, something that was conducive to my dietary needs. Um, I also had difficult, uh, time with the protein there, but

    Bri: Yeah.

    Vanessa: then, Um, yeah, nut butters and.

    Bri: Yeah. So it was, it was a little hard, but we did it. And I, I was, um, the doctors never commented on my weight. I think I gained maybe about 25 pounds total, which is towards the lower end, but I think that's fine. I'm a pretty small person anyways.

    Vanessa: you're very petite in stature

    Bri: did.

    Vanessa: yeah.

    Bri: like five feet, pretty tiny. They measured my fundal heights, every appointment and they were measuring fine.

    So they weren't concerned with him at all. So I wasn't too worried about the nutrition part of it, but we, so we did the classes, we continued. Those, um, they actually, and so my due date was November 25th and the classes went until November 24th. So they were every Sunday for 12 weeks. , 

    Zak: that was the worst part. It was during football season. Yes. Yes. Um,

    Vanessa: Well,

    Bri: so,

    Vanessa: Zak, for sticking with it. Yeah.

    Bri: Um, I was Going every two weeks instead of like once a month. Same with the adjustments. Um, just so the adjust the adjustments, uh, more were for like my pelvis since I sit at a desk all day on a computer, making sure my pelvis was tilted correctly.

    Because as you sit all day long, it gets out of alignment. Um, and it needs to be in the correct position for him to get out. So we did that. And she would check his position for me at every one of those in the third trimester. Cause the midwives are like, no, we don't care what position season we don't need to know until I don't even think they really checked until like 38 weeks.

    I asked them early and they semi didn't really want to do it, but they did it anyways. Cause I asked, um, but I just wanted to give myself time to readjust him. If I needed to, I didn't want. To be forced into anything, um, because he wasn't in great position. And then, so I'm doing my exercises. I learned from the Bradley.

    I got the ball. I'm doing all the stuff on the ball. squatting was hard. Squatting was part of the exercises, which if you can do it, it's a really good thing for labor. Um, I have knee issues, so it was a little hard for me to do all the squatting or the deep, deep on the floor. Like

    Vanessa: Yep.

    Bri: squatting was hard for me.

     I'm still like researching and as we're going up into this, taking these classes, I'm talking to you. Um, and then those last few weeks you got your classes they're ready to go. And I was sitting there listening to all of your things while I'm working.

    And, uh, I would have loved to have had them a little sooner too, to get like actually into them, into them. And, apply it. A lot of your stuff was really similar to the Bradley classes. Um, yours was more positive focused, a little bit different. You had a couple of things that they don't do, like your, you're like hot and cold techniques.

    They don't really go into that. They

    Vanessa: yeah.

    Bri: don't go into that. They don't really go into like anything postpartum either, which you talk about. 

    Zak: Well, they might've attended the last class. 

    Bri: We have to, we have the book though. So yeah, we missed the last class. Um, yeah, they didn't go into the postpartum. They didn't, They may have mentioned like pelvic floor Brifly, but they didn't like go into it like you do with the pelvic floor therapist.

    Your meditation's a little, your meditation's different, which I like your meditations, um, a lot more than the Bradley method has you doing the, if they call it relaxation, um, which it just was hard for us. Uh, they want to do sidelining. Um, and then like your husband's like petting you or rubbing you, whatever to like you're practicing relaxing so you can do this in labor.

    Vanessa: Mm

    Bri: Um, and it was, it was hard and awkward for us. I liked your meditation method so much better. 

    Zak: Yeah. They want, they want the guy to be like, you're doing so good. You're great. We're going to get through like practicing for it. And I'm like, ah, yeah, that's not us at all. Yeah, that's not,

    Vanessa: Yeah.

    Bri: not happening. Yeah.

    Yeah,

    Vanessa: so that if you can get into that zone, like that's what you need.

    You know, you don't need your. Husband to practice petting you on the head

    , I love to focus on that more connection. And even with this podcast, my goal is like five to 15 minute long meditations of varying types.

    Hoping that people, cause not everybody is going to resonate with a certain style, but that if I, you know, have a certain pattern, people could find a few and listen to them on repeat if they need, or just know every Monday they can go ahead and download a new one and try it out. So

    Bri: yeah, you're.

    Vanessa: Thank you.

    Bri: Yes. I guess that yours was more, more positive, um, and yeah, the meditation, your pelvic floor, like, and like how your intro, like, your, how do you want your birth to be in your care providers? And it's okay to switch care providers if you're not comfortable with them. Because a lot of times, like, even though you're the one that's paying them for the service, , you feel, obligated to stick with them, kind of thing.

    I've always felt that way. Like, Oh, I should just stick it out. But, um, kind of changed a little bit.

    Vanessa: the reminder that that's not how it needs to be here. , you are the one hiring them and they ultimately answer to you.

    Bri: Yeah. Um, so yeah, there was, I, like I said, I would have had yours a little bit sooner. Yeah. I would have been able to apply it, um, more than that. That would have been, it was like my last two weeks I was sitting there like

    Vanessa: was like, here you go, watch what you can.

    Bri: Yeah,

    Vanessa: I,

    Bri: yeah,

    Vanessa: appreciate you, um, being willing to watch what you could before he came and I, I'm so happy to hear that, um, that there were pieces of it that were hopefully impactful for you. So,

    Bri: it was very impactful. And let's see, the last few weeks, I also, um, I came across, uh, a free, like, pelvic floor class. Because I knew I wanted to do, um, some pelvic floor therapy. I just hadn't, like, gotten around to it really. And, like, it's getting closer and closer. And then I saw this free class, I went and attended it.

    And they're talking through um, like it was just like an open forum of like what it is like what it can help with and then like it opened it up to whoever was attending to ask questions and um, and I knew you to give birth you needed to be able to have that muscle relaxed enough to let him come through and I was having trouble like

    Vanessa: Mm

    Bri: The exercises that the Bradley method wanted you they wanted to do like these

    Vanessa: Mm

    Bri: like honestly That's ridiculous, but I'm like I can't at this point that we're starting the classes like I can't feel that muscle anymore.

    So I went and attended that free pelvic floor class knowing I needed to Recognize it to be able to help with the birth. So I got in a couple of sessions with them and I was like, is this normal? Like, I could feel this muscle before I was pregnant. I was like, but I can't, I can't find it. She's like, that's totally normal.

    She's like you've got all this weight now with him and everything else. , it's completely normal not to be able to recognize it anymore. So she gave me some exercises to be able to recognize it. , breathing, which fell in line with your meditation.

    Vanessa: Yeah.

    Bri: so I did that.

    Vanessa: Yeah.

    Bri: three of those classes in.

    And then, uh, we did my 38 weeks. I did my acupuncture and she did induction pressure points, which if your body's ready, if he's, if your baby's ready, uh, then your labor can start within a few hours or within a couple of days. It can jumpstart it. Um, I wasn't, he wasn't ready yet, so we did that and then I'm waiting going the next week into 39 weeks and I went ahead and scheduled another induction for the acupuncture the next Friday, just in case it's like I don't want to go into 40 weeks, 41 weeks and then pressure me for an induction Pitocin and causes the pain to be worse.

    I don't want that. I don't want to like, um, fall down that intervention. Uh, so

    Vanessa: And you are due the week of Thanksgiving too, which I think is important to note too, um, because the rate of inductions skyrockets around holidays. And, um, holidays like Thanksgiving, um, and Christmas and New Year's are the on record least amount of birthdays in the history. And that is Because providers purposely will schedule c sections or inductions around, um, those holidays.

    So, um, kudos for you for recognizing that, that you would be at a higher risk of being pressured to do that, , from your, oh, from your midwife or hospital, you know, if you were to go in there, then, yeah,

    Bri: Yeah. So, um, so we knew that and I was, we're getting into 39 weeks. I'm upping the exercises. I was trying to get in more walks. I was bad about not walking, especially when it's cold out. I don't want to walk

    Vanessa: yes.

    Bri: Um, so I was, we live out in the country and so I had no curb. So I was doing stairs multiple times a day, um, more than normal going up and down the stairs.

    , so the 39 weeks was coming and I'm like talking to him. Multiple times a day, like, all right, it's time to get out, like, come on. Um, drinking the raspberry tea, I tried the dates. They weren't horrible for me. The texture was a little too chewy. Um, but they weren't horrible for me, like, the taste wise.

    Very, very sweet. I like sweet stuff, but they were, like, on the verge of too sweet for me. Which is crazy. Um, but so I didn't really get into the dates. I did like eight of them and then I was done, but I did the raspberry tea, uh, some pineapple, but yeah, 39 weeks was coming. And I'm like, okay, do I ask the midwives to do a membrane sweep just to try to kickstart things?

    They never, surprisingly, they never pressured me for cervical checks. They never pressured me for a membrane sweep. , I would say 36 weeks I was feeling like cramping and I'm like, are these contractions or are these Braxton Hicks? I don't know what these are and I know the one night it was really bad and I was messaging you the next morning cause it kind of, it made me panic.

    Um, but yeah, 39 weeks we're still, he's still hanging in there and I, it was Wednesday, uh, like around five o'clock I got like this, Wave come over me and I'm like, oh, that's a little different. Like it wasn't painful or anything. It was just a, this wave, like sensation, um, like started down low, came up over my belly.

    So I'm like, Oh, is this a, is this a contraction? I don't know. So I had texted one of my friends. I was like, I think I had a contraction and we were going back and forth. And then, um, I just went to bed. Like we did our went to bed, like normal planning on getting up the next day to go to work and. I got up and I was still having Those moments and they were coming more frequent.

    I was like, I think these are contractions so, uh He was still Still at home. He hadn't left for work or anything yet, and we had a baby appointment on thursday uh at like 9 or something and it Surprisingly, it had snowed overnight. We there was no snow in the forecast or anything So we got like this little Snow kind of ice ish storm.

    Not like a full ice storm. It wasn't much. Um, it was a dusting of snow. It wasn't, yeah, it was the little dusting kind of thing. Um, so we get up and I'm like, I, I think I might be having contractions, but I don't know. See, I was like, let's, we'll go to the baby appointment. We'll have her check and see. I was like, I don't know what I'm feeling.

    And he's like, no, he's like, if you are, let's just wait. Let's not go. Let's wait. It's like, no, I want to go. I want to, I want to see if this really is a contraction. Um, so we were going back and forth about that. And then finally he agrees to, to go to the baby appointment with me. Um,

    Vanessa: So, Zak, what was in your mind at that point? Like, why were you wanting to wait versus her going? What were you, trying to avoid or trying to prevent or?

    Zak: I feel like she. To me, if she was having contractions, um, just based on what we had learned and the, some of the Braxton Hicks, she'd already had, like, this was different. Um, we were so close to the due date that it's like, I think this is it, but it also snowed a little bit. And I think to me, it was like, do we really want to drive all the way to the hospital now?

    For a checkup, like the normal checkup we've been doing when we can just wait out these contractions, see if they're legitimate, wait for them to get closer together and more frequent and more intense, and then go into the hospital. Because my concern was we're going to go in, they're going to say, Oh yeah, you're three centimeters dilated.

    You're, you're definitely there. And they would be like, but we want you to stay. And then we'd be stuck in the hospital for 24, 36 hours. That's what was my concern. It's like, let's stay here, wait until you're, you can't even speak in between contractions where it's there. And then we'd go into the hospital on in and out, but.

    Bri: I was thinking all my pain tolerance is high. I'd had the kidney stone before, um, a few years ago. Uh, and everyone said kidney stones are like, are supposed to be worse than childbirth. Um, so I'm like, oh, I've got a high pain tolerance. I did that. No problem. So I'm like, can I, am I really like, are these contractions like where, if these are like, where am I at?

    Is my pain tolerance high enough that I, I just don't know. Are we at the very beginning or somewhat in the middle, like second stage? Um, so that's kind of, I like, I wanted to go in and see like, Let's just do the cervical check. I was debating the membrane sweep anyway. Um, so I went in and I'm just talking to her and she's like, well, , have you been timing?

    I was like, not really. I was like, we have a 10 minute drive here. And I probably had like two or three within that, that drive. Um, and she's like, okay. So she's like, you want me to check? I was like, yeah, let's check. So, , she went ahead and checked and I was a five. Okay. At the, uh, the 9 30 appointment. So I must've had like those first ones through the, off the night and just slept through that.

    Um, and then she gave us the option.

    Vanessa: by the way. That was basically your early labor. You spent sleeping. Love to see it. We say nest, sleep as much as you can, rest in early labor. , because you know, it's going to get harder and you're going to want to have that energy. So while you can, um, Um, just rest and try to ignore them as much as possible.

    I usually recommend, coming up with a list of to do things if you're awake that can help distract you, like making a meal or, you know, save some laundry to fold during early labor or something to keep your mind off of it. Um, so that was great that you were able to sleep through it all. Not even really, um, knowing what it was, isn't that your body handled it and you're just like, Oh, Oh, by the way, I'm five centimeters. That's

    Bri: Yeah. Yeah. I never, like, I, I feel like I slept really good. Like I had a, um, anterior placenta, so I, his movements were muted for me. So he never like woke me up in the middle of the night from moving or anything. I, the most. The only reason I got up in the middle of the night was because I had to pee so bad all night long.

    But other than that, I probably would have just continued sleeping, um, normally. Uh, but yeah, I was able to sleep through it. And then, so at the appointment, she gave us the option. She's like, you can go upstairs or you can go home, have lunch, time it. And if it gets, what'd she say, like two to three minutes apart, come back in.

    So that's what we're like, okay, we have a dog at home. We didn't, we don't have anyone, like we have no family close or anything. Um, close enough to, to come and get her or watch her or whatever. So we're like, let's, let's go home. Let's spend as much time as we can at home for her to shorten it, uh, our time away from her.

    Uh, so that's what he did. We went home, he made me lunch. I'm sitting on the ball while he's making me food. I, I'm eating my food on the ball. , and then he's like, go lay down. So we go to the bedroom, I lay down, , and then , cause I know what I'm feeling now, so I'm like, okay, here, I'm telling him, like, here comes another one, it's ended, whatever, so he can time it.

    So he started timing it, and I don't know, we didn't lay there very long. We weren't home for very long. Two hours. Yeah. He's like, all right, let's go back in. I would have laid there probably a little bit longer, but he's like, let's go. 

    Zak: Yeah. She was contracting about 60 seconds and then about two minutes in between each one at that point. So, and that was sustained for about 12, 15 contractions I did. And I was like, yeah, it's let's go back in. Cause you're, you're at exactly where they said you should be at before you go in. Um, now in hindsight. 

    Bri: We could have stayed longer. 

    Zak: We could have stayed an additional like eight hours in our house. Um, I guess not eight hours, maybe five.

    Vanessa: a common, um, thing I think with first time birthers, not realizing you don't know how your body is going to handle labor. it is very common for first time birthers to go 24, 48 hours and for that early labor and even like to five, six centimeters. Um, so I think it was great that you came back home because otherwise you would have been at the hospital that whole time too. Um, but yeah, go ahead and tell me, what happened next after that,

    Bri: Yeah, so we went, we went back and like, I'm sitting here. I'm like, okay, I think this is moving pretty fast for my first time. Like this is supposed to take forever. That's, I remember thinking that the entire time. Um, but we went back to the office, uh, cause our, uh, Our office is in the floor of the hospital.

    Um, so she told us to come back instead of going to labor delivery, come back to them. So we went back, she checked me again, and I was between six to seven within just that couple of hours. So I'm like, I really, yeah, I was like, I'm going through this a little faster than I thought I would be. So she takes us upstairs.

     During the tour,, they showed us. The rooms and then there's also like a triage room that they do before Like if you come to labor and drug delivery They send you in there to get your ivs and whatever and then they give you a room We bypassed the triage room. We went straight into an actual room.

    , they got us settled in I had to get penicillin because I tested positive for group b. , they get us checked in We didn't take our bags in or anything You First we went up to the room got like settled in the room He went and got our bags and brought those up a little bit later But um, I wanted to labor in the tub.

    They had jacuzzi tubs So like I was adamant that that's what I was going to do spend my entire labor in the tub is what I wanted Um, so we get the the tub started They're doing like my IVs and stuff and then um, they let me get in the tub while they're running the penicillin They tell us that We're on a fluid shortage because of the hurricanes.

    We might not be able to get you fluids. Penicillin burns. So I was like, okay, um, I'll just do a slow drip. I can handle a little tiny burn. Uh, should I get the, the bags in? And she's like, oh, they ended up being able to get you some fluids. So we can like do the mix, dilute it down. Yeah. I was like, okay, great.

    So, um, she sets it all up. We don't think anything of it. I get in the tub. She turns it on. And my entire arm just lights on fire and it like starts creeping up to my shoulder and I'm like Screaming 

    Zak: It was super freaky. You it was turning. I watched her arm like her veins start to bulge on her arm And like coming up her arm and then I watched Redness creep upper arm.

    It was,

    Vanessa: wow.

    Zak: weird. It was horrible. So penicillin does burn if you have strep, uh, B strep strepococcus B. Yeah. Um,

    Vanessa: Yeah, Group.B Strep. Yep.

    Zak: yeah. Um, if you have that penicillin does, uh, does burn a little bit. Um, and by a little bit, I mean that she was screaming pretty bad. Um, but contractions I was having, like my arm felt like it was on fire, but the nurse also brought.

    The bag in and, uh, of, uh, the fluid bag, turn it on. And she didn't turn it on. She turned the penicillin, the penicillin on how Drip, drip, drip, drip, drip, drip, drip, and nothing in the fluids. So I think either she was trying to save the bag or she missed it. Um, I don't know. But yeah, once, once they adjusted that and gave her a slow drip of penicillin and it was better steady drip of fluids, that calmed her down.

    Bri: Yeah. And I could have had like a slight reaction to it too, which made it worse. Um. But yeah, that was horrible. Um,

    Vanessa: more, much more painful than the contractions? And was

    Bri: it was,

    Vanessa: a longer, more constant, too, than, than the waves that you were feeling?

    Bri: oh, it was like a continuous pain, like just said until they put the fluids in, then it was okay. Um, but just like that, as soon as it hit my, like the veins and she had left the room, like I was in the tub, she got it set up, um, and she had left. So like. As soon as I felt that burn, like I pulled the cord and it took her, like it felt like it took her forever to get to us about 15 seconds.

    Yeah. It didn't take her long, but in my,

    Vanessa: Yeah.

    Bri: so bad. It felt like it took her. Yeah. Yeah. I'm like, you gotta fix this now. Um, it was, it was horrible. Um, but yeah, once they diluted it down, it was better. And then they had, and then I, I had to have it, I think three times. Because they do you get a longer dose your first dose and then they have to administer like 30 It should be about 30 minutes every four hours until you deliver just to keep it Um, but they had to I think each time they had to keep diluting it down more and more and slowing it down just because it I wasn't reacting well to it Um, but yeah, once they once they fix that i'm like sitting in the tub the jets didn't work, which I was so sad about

    Vanessa: Oh.

    Bri: And of course the water doesn't get as hot as I want it to because he's in my belly.

    So I'm sitting there and they, as soon as we checked in, they're like, you can't have any foods. You're on a liquid diet. I'm like, forget that. I had a whole snack bag packed. Um, so I was sneaking her snacks snacks when they weren't in there. I was like, I'm not getting an epidural. There's no reason for me to not like, I understand the potential of a C section, but.

    Me snacking on something here and there isn't gonna um, it's not like i'm eating a full meal. So

    Vanessa: Love to hear it.

    Bri: Yeah, so he's like

    Vanessa: run a marathon on an empty stomach, is what I like to say. So why would you go through the marathon of birth without some nourishment for you and for baby? Oh

    Bri: Right and especially like first some labors like you said can take days Like I'm not gonna days without eating anything 

    Zak: second third nurse didn't carry it was the first nurse. It was the Stifler 

    Bri: Yeah, we went through Did we go through two nurses? Three nurses. Um, but yeah, so I'm in the tub for a little bit and I don't know if it was a reaction to the penicillin or what.

    I just started getting the chills and the shakes and I'm like, I can't, I can't stay in here any longer. Um, so I go back to the bed and I'm still like going through the contractions, uh, pretty conscious. I think I was messaging you. I. Later that day. I was still pretty conscious. Um, I didn't get another cervical check until later But they were 

    It was that's 

    Zak: probably five o'clock.

    We got the next one and you were at eight 

    Bri: eight Yeah, so I and I was still pretty conscious at eight. I feel like at the beginning of eight

    Vanessa: me that you, I think it was right around when you got checked, because I had asked, or you reached out to me. I was trying to like, Stay in my lane and wait for you to reach out whenever you are ready or whenever you needed something. And I remember you telling me that you are eight and I was like, she is texting me and she's at eight centimeters.

    Like you are rocking this girl. Like that is so amazing. And the fact, like you said earlier, things moved pretty quickly considering it was your first time birth. It might've felt really long in the moment, but all things considered your timeline is, it was very quick.

    Bri: Yeah, and like, I like was conscious of that. I'm like, this shouldn't, it shouldn't be moving this fast. Like, this is great. Like we need to keep it up. Um, cause I'm like, we, you got to come out before my next dose of penicillin is due. I don't want another dose. Um,

    Vanessa: Mm

    Bri: bed for a little bit. Um, but it was kind of uncomfortable. So I was like. walking, standing and walking around. They brought me a ball. It was too big for me. So I sort of semi used it sort of didn't. Um, we did some, like he stood behind me, wrapped his arm around me and I leaned back against him.

    We did some of that for a little bit. Um, I tried to do hands, like hands and knees was my next, like. Labor positioning that I want to do with pelvic tilts. I couldn't do it. It made me so nauseous Just getting down in that sort of position. I couldn't do so we were just up and around like Waddling back and forth for a while They would come in they were using the wrong Monitoring for him on me.

    They instead of using like the wand Uh, cause I wanted intermittent monitoring. I didn't want to wear the band, um, instead of using the wand, they were like, just holding the band button up to my belly to check him. They would like, okay, come over here. And they would just like hold it to my belly while I'm standing there.

    Um, and he did, he was doing perfectly fine the entire time. Um, they checked him and then I don't remember at some point, like they, the contractions were getting. So bad. I was like, yeah, I was like, let's try. I think, did we do the squat bar first tried to do hands and knees with the squat bar? 

    Zak: Well , it was probably six o'clock you tried the squat bar on the bed.

    You were not comfortable. 

    Bri: So I turned around, , they brought the bed up. So I was like leaning against the back on my knees. , I stayed, I don't know how long I stayed there. It felt like a long time. It felt like long because my knees were getting tired of holding me up. Uh, but that was semi comfortable.

    I I do remember I was like I have to pee so bad And i'm leaning there like just pee and i'm like what and they're like just pee So like I'm leaning against the back of this bed and just peeing. I'm like, okay, like I don't, I shouldn't be doing this, but okay. I was like, I gotta pee that bad. , so we did that.

    And then like, so I was having back labor really bad. He's doing the counter pressure on my lower back. Um, I was not prepared for the butt pressure. Like there was so much pressure and I'm like, I know I need to relax into it, but I couldn't do it. , and that's like part of the training is you relax into the contractions to make them easier.

    I could not relax into the butt pressure. I just couldn't do it. So then I was like, alright, we're going to the toilet. , so there I was able to relax more into it, , which made it a little easier. I, I don't remember if I started out backwards or forwards, or I may have switched back and forth. 

    Zak: You started out backwards and you switched to sitting. , normal on it. Yeah. And you were there for almost three hours. 

    Bri: Those were the hardest contractions was when we, when I was leaning against the back of the bed and then moved to the toilet, those were the hardest ones. And I, I remember just asking like, how much longer is my water going to break?

    How much longer? Cause, the nurse, we had a shift change and we had a different nurse at that point and the midwife had came and they're just hanging out in the room with us. Like they, they left us alone, like almost up until I think that point. And they're just hanging out in the room. , so 

    Zak: now it's when we got the awesome nurse.

    Bri: Yeah. Yeah. So we, so I'm on the toilet and I'm like, I'm out of it at that point. Like I'm just internally focusing on my breathing through the contractions. He's counter pressuring.

    hmm. My eyes were closed almost the entire time

    at that point, and I'm like, doing my deep breaths, and your meditations, and what they taught me, the pelvic floor, like, I'm also visualizing, like, as I'm breathing out, he's moving down.

    Like, that's all I'm doing. Every contract is what I was visualizing. And I'm like, I kind of want to push, but I don't know if I need to push. And they're like, do you feel like you need to push? I was like, I don't know what that feels like. So I'm like, yes. And then I can, I remember there was a couple of points that I'm like, there's something coming out and it's just like, All this extra fluids and it's not my water hasn't broken yet, but it was like all this stuff.

    I wasn't expecting like I didn't look at it. Um, my eyes were, I think I just kept closing my eyes, but 

    Zak: you were just out of it at that point. Yeah,

    Vanessa: Was it like mucus plug stuff?

    Zak: yeah, yeah. It was for the guys who watch this or, , ladies are going to have their guys in the room. Uh, guys are going to see there's a lot of blood. A lot of poop, um, just every body fluid you can think of you're, you're going to see and you're going to help clean up.

    So. Which isn't bad in the moment. It's like, whatever, this is, this is what's happening. Yeah. It's going to bring us that much closer together. 

    Bri: Yeah. And I, I remember, um, I had a thought I was like, Oh, I've been sitting on here for, uh, cause he kept, he's like, are you sure you don't want to get off the toilet?

    And I'm like, Internally stupid, such a stupid thought. I'm like, Oh, am I going to get hemorrhoids from sitting here so long? And I'm like, that's such a stupid thing to think of. And then like, so when he's doing the counterpressure, he had his arm wrapped around me. And I remember like when I was facing forward like regular seat I had opened my eyes and looked down like and there was something like dripping down my belly because I at this point i'm naked Um, and I just kept thinking like is he crying?

    Like, what are these drops going down my belly? So like later I had asked him, like, were you crying? And he's like, no, he's like, you were, you were leaking colostrum. . I just thought he was crying because I was in all this. 

    Zak: I felt like crying because I was kneeling on a tile floor for hours, but that's another thing for guys, bring pillows, bring lots of pillows.

    Um, so you can try and be somewhat comfy while you're trying to make her comfy.

    Vanessa: Yeah, and,

    Bri: Yeah.

    Vanessa: multiple pillowcases, so you can swap them out because bodily fluids happen. I

    Bri: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Mm hmm. Mm

    Vanessa: you said, it's such a great natural position for people to sit in and, and relax better. Um, and you can sit forward or sit backwards over it and lean over the back of the toilet. Um, and somebody, when you lean over the back of the toilet. It's easier for somebody to do that counterpressure still. you. Um, but yeah, I've had doula clients before we're starting out.

    They're really modest. You know, I'm walking in as a stranger just based on how our program works. You know, I don't do prenatal appointments or anything. So I walk in as a complete stranger and, try to gauge the room and the mood and everything. And they might start out modest and , if they go to the restroom, they'll close the door and everything.

    And by the end of the birth, they are like, like you said, fully naked. Not a care in the world. They are totally focused inward and they're like, I need you. Don't leave me get in here counterpressure now Like you just like you at that point, you know, it is what it is You know and especially like you said that labor and delivery nurses doulas midwives like we've seen a lot it's all part of the process or It all gets cleaned up later, you know, and

    Bri: hmm.

    Vanessa: it is what it is and you just got to roll with it and whatever makes you comfortable, whatever position you are in, um , if you feel like you can't get off the bed or it's not worth the energy, then yeah, pee in the bed.

    We'll fix it. That's what chux pads are for. Mm.

    Zak: And she lost, you lost yours a little bit earlier, um, cause she, I think it was when you were measured, measured at eight, it was like four or five o'clock. Um, she wanted to take her sports bra off cause she was getting hot. 

    Bri: Well, and it was wet cause I got in the tub with it on. 

    Zak: That's where I knew she was starting to be in a little bit of pain is.

    Cause I was like, Oh, you want me to shut the curtains on the windows? Cause we're, we're in a area that has a big, like floor to ceiling window that overlooks the parking lot of this facility. And she's like, I don't care. Just, just ripped it off. Like, all right, whatever. And she's very like, she won't even go to the mailbox without a bra on.

    Like that's, that's how modest she is. Um, I was like, yeah, this is, we're, we're getting close. Yeah, a little bit. I know we have a lot longer to go. 

    Bri: A lot. Well, yeah. So I'm like sitting on this toilet and I think it's like, cause of your training, like you're, you. Go to the bathroom or toilet like it's wrong to go outside of that.

    So it's easier to relax sitting on the toilet Um,

    Vanessa: Okay.

    Bri: like Well, she's like you just you never know and i'm like, well, how do I know if it's broken?

    she's like, you'll know she's like some people say they hear a pop and Others feel a gush. Um, and then I think it was like not long after she said that I'm sitting there like just sitting there thinking I need her to break my waters. Like, I think I'm going to give in. I want her to break my waters. And as soon as like, I'm like internally like rallying myself up to ask that I feel the, um, I felt, I felt it pop in my stomach and my waters broke.

    And, uh, so then I don't know how 

    Zak: we got you up right away. Me and the midwife walked you to the bed. The nurse tripped over your IV and I thought for certain it was going to rip out, but, um, it didn't rip out. 

    Bri: Yeah. I have no recollection of how I got from the toilet to the bed. 

    Zak: Yeah. She was, 

    Bri: I was so, and my eyes are closed.

    I. Yeah, she was out of it. Um, so I guess I can jump in. Well, I, I, I guess so once I was in the bed, they, I think they had, I don't know if they had the stirrups. I don't think they put the stirrups yet, but they kept stirrups up right away. They kept trying to flatten me back, like completely flattened me.

    And I was like, no, I don't want to be flat. No. Um, my eyes are still closed. I'm telling them this.

    Vanessa: Okay.

    Bri: Um, but at that point, like I felt that, that correct urge to push, I don't know how to explain it. 

    Zak: I will say you never told her to move your leg into a different position. 

    Bri: Did I not? I must've thought it and it didn't come up.

    Zak: If you had said that I would have told her to, or, or pushed her back and done it myself, you never said that. So I had assumed the whole time that the nurse is holding her leg just fine. 

    Bri: No, the nurse wasn't holding it right. Whatever. Or at that point.

    Vanessa: a testament, though, that you are so in your mind when you're in transition and getting to that, those final stages of labor. You are all, it is so internalized that, yeah, you can have entire conversations to yourself and your mind and, . Have your eyes closed and move positions from one location to another and you just really afterwards it's all a blur because you are so inward focused and you are on a mission to bring him and that was your job. so yeah it's funny how that can happen where you think you said something or did something or things happened in a certain order and maybe after the fact you learned that they were in a totally different order. So that's why I always love hearing the partner's perspective of the stories too. Um,

    Zak: Do you think you said anything else when we got you to the bed? No, because we got you to the bed. We put you in stirs immediately. We did not recline you all the way. We were slightly reclined you back. She kept trying to recline the only, when we got you to the bed, the only thing you said was some guttural groans as you were pushing.

    And then when you were crowning, you were saying it hurts. It hurts. It hurts. It hurts at the top. Yeah. I felt

    Vanessa: Did you feel the ring og fire?

    I 

    Bri: felt the ring of fire. And then I felt like. It was so painful at the top. So I'm in my head. I'm thinking, Oh, I'm tearing at the top. Um, and that's what I remember. I remember, I don't know if I was screaming it or not, but I remember saying it hurts.

    It hurts. Yeah. 

    Zak: You were screaming. It hurts. And, um, for a good, like probably five minutes, I would say. Oh, it felt like around until the time he, his head came out. 

    Bri: Yeah. And they're like, and they're, they can't, I remember you guys telling me to push and I could not hold my breath long enough. To hold the push to get him complete with your eye to keep taking a break.

    Cause I couldn't hold my breath that much longer. Um, and then I remember them asking me, Oh, you want to touch his head? And I'm like, no, I don't want to touch his head. No, thank you. I did. You did?

    Vanessa: Did you actually touch it, Zak? Or did you just want to? Yeah? Yeah?

    Zak: No, I did.

    Vanessa: isn't it a crazy feeling? I did the same thing with me. It was before I had gotten to 10 centimeters though, and I love telling the story that my doula actually was like, he's right there, do you want to touch him? And as soon as I did, within minutes, I was at 10 centimeters after being sawed because it like gave me that oxytocin rush, like, oh my God, he is right there. And I could feel his hair and I never pictured him having hair. And

    Bri: Oh, I guess,

    Vanessa: gosh, she's almost here.

    Zak: sorry. I felt his head as he was crowning. Not as he was, uh, starting to come out through the cervix. That's, yeah.

    Vanessa: so he, yeah, so he was, he was really there. He was

    Bri: Yeah, he was.

    Vanessa: out.

    Bri: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Um, yeah, I remember them asking me that and then, , I was kept trying to push and you guys were all telling me to push, push and push. So I was doing that. And then I think as soon as he, his head popped through, I heard the midwife yell, get NICU, but I'm not processed.

    Like I heard her, but it wasn't like a process. Like I didn't get scared or anything like you, you would think you would. Um, I was too out of it and then I remember them saying, cut the cord and we wanted to do delayed cord until it was done. Um, so, and then I remember they, telling Zak to cut the cord and he didn't want to cut the cord initially, but I think he went ahead and did it quickly.

    Yeah. 

    Zak: So when his head came out, um, he was, he wasn't breathing, wasn't make, wasn't moving, um, That's when our midwife said get NICU down here now. Um, and then I couldn't believe it. It's wild watching these, these guys who handle babies as their job. They're crazy rough. You're like, Whoa, what the heck?

    But I mean, I guess babies are really tough, but yeah, she, I mean, she yanked him out of her. And I think that's what caused some of the tearing she had. Um, cause I mean, she just, his head was out, his chin was out and she just reached up and grabbed the back of his neck and just, I mean, yanked him out. And, um, yeah, he was completely limp.

    Um, the nurse clamped him and the nurse handed me the scissors. She goes, cut his cord here. And I just cut it. Cause I'm like, yeah, this is, yeah, at this point, NICU is running into literally running into the room. So I'm like, oh boy, this, yeah, this isn't how this is supposed to be. And then, yeah, they got him to the table and before they can put him down on the table, he was screaming his head off.

    So, um, just a little bit delayed on taking his first breath. 

    Bri: Yeah, yeah, so I tore, I had second degree tears down, and then, uh, Zak, Zak said it was his shoulders when she yanked him out that tore the up portion, so I had to be reconstructed. 

    Zak: At least I think it was, because she wasn't, when his head came out, I, there was no bleeding that I could see, other than just like, some of the goopier stuff.

    But once it pulled him out, she, there's a lot of blood. Um, and I don't know if that was internal blood or that's him coming out, but there was a lot of blood pooling, um, in the clitoris area. So that's just what my assumption is. His shoulders tore. 

    Bri: Um, but yeah, She started working on getting the um, the placenta out.

    Uh, they Dealing with him. They brought him back put him on my belly. Um, so placenta came out pretty fast Yeah, within like a couple minutes. 

    Zak: Yeah, I'd say closer to 10, but was it? Yeah, I felt like it was a little longer and then she started like looking at the tears Um, and that's what she was telling me She did the stitches in the bottom.

    She's like for the top area. She's like your labia is torn She's like, do you care what it looks like? She's like I can stitch it or we can just let it go naturally And I was like, I don't really care what it looks like. I just want the area to work So she took a closer look and she's like, well, you've got a hole So we really need to stitch that hole or , you're just going to have an extra hole.

    Okay, and , so she had done the bottom, and she did the, the lidocaine, which does nothing. I could, still feel everything in it hurt. I feel like it hurt worse than the contractions. From what I could see. I was screaming. I was gripping the nurse's hand. He was on my belly. I couldn't, Look at him. I couldn't do anything with him.

    It hurt so bad. Yeah. 

    I was holding your shoulders down. You were screaming blood . It was screaming through the whole thing, like all the contractions. I mean, she was in, in the worst part of the contractions, which I think was transition. I mean,

    Vanessa: mm

    Zak: like, she was making moans and groans.

    But, when they had the stitch her, I was greaming bloody murder. Um, yes. From my perspective, it was considerably worse than any of the birth stuff. Yeah, so Yeah, so she did the bottom and then we were talking they gave me a little break We were talking through about the top and then as like I said, she looked a little deeper She saw the hole and she's like, okay, we're gonna do it She didn't give me like really a chance to like make the decision.

    She's like we're gonna do it She's like you can do it. We're gonna do it. So I powered through it screamed again was clamping down on the nurse's hand Got through that and then You It was actually, it was really crazy. Like as soon as he came out, like all of the back labor and all of that was gone. Like you never, but yeah, we got through the stitches and finally got settled, got him up on the chest.

    And I feel like the stitches kind of interfered with the moment with him. I didn't get to have like that first really moment connection. , but, but I made it through unmedicated. It.

    Vanessa: You achieved your goal. That's what you set out to do.

    Bri: achieved my goal.

    Vanessa: Yeah, and again, kudos to you both for, um, getting educated, putting in the hard work, viewing your pregnancy and birth as more of a holistic approach where it's not just, I'm going to hire an OB, they're going to tell me what to do and I'll do that. had an acupuncturist, you were getting chiropractic care, you did pelvic health, physical therapy, you did two different methods of education. And I really think that that all contributed to the success that you had, and how quickly your labor went for being a first time birther. and yeah, and just like we were talking about before, that confidence when you go in and you just

    Bri: I wasn't like, I felt more prepared going in. Like I wasn't, I didn't get scared. Like he said, um, later. At when I was on the toilet like in the worst part of it He's like I expected you to ask for an epidural or ask for something he's like I thought you were going to give in and didn't even cross my mind The only thing that crossed my mind to giving in was breaking my waters because I wanted to speed things up But like getting any sort of pain meds didn't cross my mind now like I wish I would have had something for this for that stitching part, but Um the rest of it.

    I and then like the next day You I shouldn't say the next day. Later that day, morning, I guess it was the next day because he came at like 10 o'clock at night. Um, and then it was like hours later, they let me have a bath. My back was bruised and raw from all of the counter pressure he did. Um, but that was, that's nothing to get through, but yeah,

    Vanessa: Yeah.

    Bri: we made it through unmedicated.

    We felt prepared. I didn't get scared. I didn't get into a, uh, the fear cycle.

    Vanessa: hmm.

    Zak: yeah, I think that's a key to, This as well with the, like husband being there or your boyfriend or whoever is, if they stay positive, I think that's very helpful to, I think that was helpful for you is just, I mean, even in the points where I'm like, Ooh, shit.

    To sit positive. I got to be like, Oh, this is going good. Killing it, babe. Like just keeps them from getting into that fear cycle. And I don't know. I just feel like it'd be natural if I'm sitting there looking scared out of my mind, that it's scared and wonder why I'm looking scared or why I'm looking worried.

    And then it just starts that cycle. Yeah.

    Vanessa: Yeah, and I say a lot of times, too, from a doula perspective, we hear , oh, I already have a partner, or I don't want you to replace my partner, but you would really be surprised how often doulas doula the partners, too, and for that exact reason, because you are having to kind of be the rock and hold it together. And sometimes, crazy shit goes down, and like, You need to be doula'ed too. Um, that you can hold it together in front of your partner while they are laboring through things. Um, so yeah, that's, that's a great perspective.

    Zak: And that's one thing that I do wish we had done was take our, um, the lady who did our Bradley classes, who is a doula is having her doula for us. I think that she would have been much better in the room helping me, versus the nurse that we had. And I'm not saying it against the nurse.

    Like the nurse is amazing. Um, she, I think she said she'd been doing it for like 40 years, had been an RN for like 40 years. And you can tell she did this job because she loves the job. Like she, it wasn't just a paycheck for her. She loves it. So, um, she was incredible, but I like, she, she's a nurse. She has all of her professional training and we had the more holistic approach training.

    So it's not like we , went against each other, but it's just, she wasn't prepared to do the things that I knew Bri wanted to do. So, um,

    Vanessa: And you didn't, you didn't

    Bri: It would have been nice for him to have a little bit of a break too, um, especially with all of that, the counter pressure that I needed for him to have a little bit of a break.

    Vanessa: Yeah.

    Zak: I wasn't worried about that.

    Vanessa: too. Um,

    Zak: I was not worried about the counter pressure. Um, she'll probably want this edited out, but it was when I'm tucked up against her back while she's on the toilet and I'm getting counter pressure. And, yeah. The whole room smells like shit and I just have to keep flushing the toilet, flushing the toilet and kneeling on tile floors and then I'm standing up and I'm kind of like half kneeling.

    And so I was like, Oh my God, that's why I kept asking her like, you sure you don't want to go to a different position, babe? Cause I'm like, this is the worst possible spot for me. Cause it was like a nook, I had to stand like in a nook too, between the toilet and the, uh, sink. So, but she was comfy there, so like, alright, whatever.

    I'll keep asking, I'm not gonna force her to move. Cause I can't complain about how uncomfortable I am at this point, but, yeah. But I say, guys bring plenty of pillows. You can lean against, kneel against. Um,

    Vanessa: well, yeah, any, anything else in terms of like immediate postpartum or anything? And then I'll probably just cycle through some questions, if we did touch on things. I think we, you covered a lot, so thank you.

    Bri: I say breastfeeding has been a little bit of a struggle. Like we, uh, our other coworker, uh, Shelby had recently had hers and he had a latch issue, which I've been hearing is coming more common. Um, not latch, uh, tongue tie. Related to the latch. Uh, so while we were in the hospital, I had multiple people check him to make sure he didn't have any tongue ties.

    Um, I have to say like growing up, I wasn't exposed to anyone breastfeeding. They all did bottle feeding. Like I was around a lot of babies, but they all did bottle. So I wasn't like, I knew breastfeeding was going to be a struggle for me. I have to say those, the chafed soreness, um, was a little hard at first, but I'd reach out to Shelby like any tips, uh, but the silverettes with the, the nipple cream and then putting breast milk in them to helped, um, a lot.

    I was wearing those 24 seven. And then the, when the milk came in, the engorgement was, it was uncomfortable, , getting through that. And then, , figuring out the latch and then we've. Been on a slight struggle. , the first few days was with the colostrum. He did fine. Like we didn't really have any issues with him.

    Um, other than like a little bit of a latch struggle cause he kept sucking in his bottom lip. Um, but, and then once the milk came in,

    Vanessa: Yeah.

    Bri: well, the hospital told us just let him feed like as long as he wants.

    Um, you don't have to like monitor anything, just let him feed. And then every two to three hours. Uh, so that's what we were doing. Uh, and he's just, It was little spit ups at the beginning and then so we talked to the pediatrician and they're like, well cut your time back to how long he's on The breast and then supplement with formula and we're like, no, we're not doing formula so like, okay, well, then you can do breast milk and So we introduced the bottle It was like the end of the first week Almost beginning of the second week and we were told not to do bottles until three weeks Three weeks or until he's like fully like attached to the breast like a good breastfeeding So we did slowly introduce the bottle He was having a little bit of trouble with that and then the spitting up got worse So we finally like after Thanksgiving I went into a one

    on one lactation Consult so we figured out he's not Transcribed He's not getting the milk through as well as he should be. So he's not, not emptying the breasts to get the milk. So us cutting back the feed time was actually underfeeding him instead of what we thought was overfeeding him and causing the spit up.

    We were underfeeding him. So we got that corrected. Then the spit ups increased and now we're to the point where he's projectile vomiting everywhere, but not vomit. It's, it's, it's, He's got a little bit more pressure now when he spits up. So, um, but the pediatrician isn't concerned. He's packing on his pounds, even though he's the spit ups ridiculous.

    You wouldn't think that he would be packing on anything. Um, but the pediatrician just said it's a spitty baby and there's nothing. I think he's just, he's a little pig. So he chugs it down super fast and he gas for air in between. Anticipate. All that bubbles. He always has big burps and then big spit ups.

    Vanessa: Have you, are you still seeing the lactation consultant or going to that breastfeeding group too?

    Bri: Yeah, yeah, she, um, she's the same lady. Uh, we got lucky. Uh, she was, uh, on duty while we were in the hospital. She came in and checked in and helped me with positions. And then, um, I had my one on one with her. And then she, there's two groups, uh, one on Tuesday and one on Thursday. So she does the Thursday group.

    So I'm going to go to her groups every week. just so I can keep an eye on his weight until we can fully figure it out or he grows out of it. Um, but we do this, this week we've been doing more bottles than breasts just because it's, he doesn't seem to spit up as bad when he's on the bottle. Um, but he's more content when he does the breast, but we have another, we're also getting him into oral therapy, um, to get some exercises to help him learn how to get the milk out right for the breast.

    So that's been our, our big struggle. I, um, the stitches were extremely uncomfortable. Um, the first couple of weeks, the second week, I exactly went back to work. So I was on my own with him with all of his appointments, carrying the car seat really, um, made everything super sore with the pelvic floor and all of that.

    So I overdid it, but I had no choice, uh, at that point, just having to carry it's. super cold and windy. So I made the decision to keep him more protected with the car seat and cover versus trying to carry him outside of the car seat from the car,

    Vanessa: hmm.

    Bri: Um, if your job offers it, offers it, or have a little bit of vacation time ready to take because the exhaustion. Yeah, it's. It was tough for her. I mean, I went back to work 10 days after he was born. Um, but for me, I'm working and getting no sleep whatsoever. Um, he's gotten a lot better, but the first two weeks, um, you're, you're not sleeping, um, and they start to get into a little bit of a cycle.

    Um, still, I mean, we're on week three, um, he's sleeping two to three hours of time at night, which is way better than the 20 to 30 minutes of time at night that he was the first two weeks. So, um,

    Vanessa: It's amazing how your perspective changes on that too, like, you're like, Oh, I need eight hours of sleep. Oh, I'll take two. Just give me two hours straight.

    Bri: yeah, I think like the. The first three to four days, like after he was born and we came home, I was only running on like two or three hours, like for all of those days. Cause I just couldn't like in the hospital, like I could have slept, but I just couldn't like wind down enough to sleep in the hospital.

    And it was uncomfortable, so uncomfortable. And then you get home and, um, having to deal with him and it's, First transitions. It's, it's hard to get enough sleep and it's just us. Um, if you can have extra help, um, it's worth it. Yeah.

    Vanessa: Yeah. Mm

    Bri: I, I guess the, I am not a hormonal person typically at all. Um, I think it was the, The third day, the third or the second day, like the hormones hit me and I'm like, just crying over stupid stuff.

    The second or third day after we got home. Yeah. Yeah. The hormones hit me and it was just stupid stuff. I was just crying and I'm like, this is not me. This isn't, I don't just, and I was expecting, like, I knew the hormone drop was coming and I, I, I knew what's going to happen. I just didn't know if I would react.

    Vanessa: hmm.

    Bri: To it. Yeah, but we also went almost two full days with no sleep at all. No sleep, um, and I think that even I was, I'm a very, I'm a very calm person. I was getting angry at certain points, like, Oh my God, quit screaming. But

    Vanessa: Mm

    Bri: so it's, I think that's, that was, I like, I've only like the hormone part, I think I've only had like one or two moments, a couple moments here and there, it's not been consistent for me, which has been great.

    Um, I don't think I, I haven't had any postpartum depression. I don't feel like I have, I don't, I don't think I had the baby blues either. So. I think so far it's transitioning pretty well other than the struggle with the feeding and the sleep it's been a pretty good transition. It'll get better too. Yeah it'll

    Vanessa: Yeah, you'll all settle in. Well, that's so good to hear. Yeah, I'm just kind of paging through some of the questions. Um, you touched on this a little bit, um, but is there anything you wish that you had known or done differently before giving birth that you felt like would have been impactful to how things played out?

    Bri: Staying home longer would have been more comfortable for us. Um,

    I didn't know, like, no one really talked about like all of the, the fluids and stuff that actually does have, like, they're like, they always tell you, yeah, it's okay to poop. Like people are scared to poop. It's okay. Um, but the other fluids, like I wasn't expecting, um, slimy goopy blood. Yeah. Long drip. Yeah.

    Like I, I didn't look at. But I could feel it like, um, but yeah, I wasn't expecting like all of those fluids, it would have been nice to like be somewhat aware. Some people probably don't care, but, um,

    Vanessa: Well, and your waters, um, didn't rupture until much later, too. Um, Which is, I mean, it's pretty typical, but if they do, I think what a lot of people don't realize too is that your body will keep producing that fluid and as baby descends and, um, you know, you might have more gushes. Not like full water break, but like if baby, you know, descends and starts to plug, plug up and then they shift a little bit as they twist around and descend more, um, you know, there, there can be several other gushes or anytime you get a cervical check, um, you know, that, that just kind of like frees up all the, all of the goopy stuff to come out, um, and it'll keep coming and until baby's out and with baby and, um, you, um, we're talking about Zak, the, the blood and everything after from the tear, and there's a lot of things that come out with baby and the placenta, um, did you end up seeing the placenta at all?

    Did you want to see that? What were your thoughts on that?

    Bri: Yeah, we had them bring it over and we had them like pull it up so we could see like the sack and everything. Um, it's way bigger than I thought it would be. I expected it to be like just a little, like it's huge.

    Vanessa: Like the

    Bri: Yeah.

    Vanessa: your palm, but yeah, it's pretty big. Isn't it incredible see and just like. with the thought and the perspective that your body grew that organ from scratch and that organ was responsible for sustaining Landon's life in your uterus that whole time. And then

    Bri: Yeah.

    Vanessa: expel it and that's it.

    Bri: the fundal, I think it's the fundal massages, like that hurt at right after delivery, but the next day, it didn't bother me at all. I don't know if they just weren't, they were being like, kind of easy going on it, or if I was just past that point,

    Vanessa: Yeah, yeah, you're talking about when they, um,

    Bri: the massage your belly,

    Vanessa: yeah, they massage your belly down to make sure that, um, your uterus is contracting properly and that, um, you know, checking for any signs of retained placenta, which can be a complication.

    Bri: yeah,

    Vanessa: Is there any specific advice that you would give for anyone preparing for their own birth experience? 

    Bri: I think they need to do their research and their homework, like research what you can and can't do, what you can say no to and know what you're walking into. 

    Zak: Yeah, I would definitely research informed consent for hospitals, just knowing. What you can say no to what you should say no to, 

    what you do the research on certain things they'll ask and make your decision on what your answer will be prior to the moment of you getting asked that question.

    Um, cause doctors will, and nurses will for the most part, go by the book, go by their training, , and a lot of their training and the book is meant for efficiencies in the hospital. Um, And it's a business, they're looking at bottom line as well. , so they're going to try and do what's going to be quickest for them.

    What's going to be most efficient for them. What's going to be less risky for them. 

    Um, but you do have the right to say, I want to do it this way.

    Vanessa: Absolutely. Yeah. Informed consent. So many people don't understand what true informed consent means. It's not just the form you sign when you get admitted to the hospital, or it's not just saying yes to them telling you they're going to do something or allowing them to touch your body. Um, but yeah, truly understanding all of your options , and doing the research ahead of time, like you said, so that when you are faced with decisions that feel very emergent. Or that can feel very emergent that you are not having to process all of that new information very quickly and make an informed decision in the moment, but that you have that background going into it.

    So at least you have some foundational understanding. great advice.

     Um, there any, specific tools or practices that helped you during labor that you would, um, recommend others trying?

    Bri: Counter pressure was good knowing, like learning all of , the proper, labor positions that opens your pelvis, having that, in your mind, as you're trying to find something comfortable to, to do.

    To be in. And, um, that was really good. For me, I was comforted, when he had his arm around me, that was comforting for me to get through. Um, but some people don't like to be touched when they're having their contractions. Um, and I also knew throughout the entire process, I knew I wasn't going to be conscious enough to drink.

    So I was like, you've got to force me to continue to drink water. Um, so he did that really well. , Yeah, 

    Zak: I would say that. , make sure they stay hydrated.

    Vanessa: , Do you think, Bri, , from your perspective, do you think having Zak be so involved, like you were saying, asking questions, going to the classes, , when you prompted him to or encouraged him to, um, and B, like, again, that arm wrapped around you during labor, um, do you think that that impacted how you were able to carry through labor and enter motherhood, knowing that you had his support a hundred percent?

    Bri: Yes, I think so. If we would have gone into labor and he would have just been standing off to the side not knowing what to do, I think it would have been a horrible process. Um, me trying to figure it all out on my own. , so having him be supportive and comforting and , it helped the process transition a little better.

    Vanessa: , if there's one thing, maybe each of you can say one thing that you would like others or listeners now to take away from your story, what would that be?

    Bri: I would say, trust yourself, , if I wouldn't have done my research at the beginning when we were trying to get pregnant and just waited like they said, I could have been, potentially been on an IVF journey. Um, which of course can't afford, no one can afford that. Um, but it's a lot of chemicals you're pumping into yourself 

    something's not happening versus just treating a symptom versus looking at the whole. 

    Zak: Yeah, I would. Say the same thing. Um, keep in mind that hospitals are for profit organizations and the person who helps you pay for the hospital visit.

    The insurance company is also a for profit organization. , if they tell you we can't do this or we can't do that, or you have to wait 12 months for us to do this, it's, that's a bottom line decision. That's, I mean, that's, I can't really, there's no argument that, um, insurance company just doesn't want to pay for that.

    So the hospital won't do it. Um, so look at other options. There are a lot of Western medicine options that have been, have worked for. Thousands of years. Um, yes, modern medicine works great for a lot of things, but,, if you're looking for a way that maybe something else could help me here, why not just look into something, try something that's not going to hurt.

    Vanessa: Keep an open mind. Well, yeah, I loved hearing everything that was so, it was really exciting for me to hear , from your all's perspective and to hear the details of it. and to just see the pride in both of you guys, , sharing the story and even just looking down and consoling Landon. It's beautiful to see you as parents now. , welcome to this side. , But yeah, is there anything else that you want to, like, any last parting words?

    Bri: Yes, we are open. We decided we wanted to open up our story so people can be aware you don't have to settle for waiting that year. Look it up, find other reasons. If you think there's , something else happening that can be fixed, don't just settle.

    Vanessa: I love ending on that. . listening to your body and trusting your gut instinct and not giving up. 

    Thank you so much for spending time with me today. I hope you found this episode helpful and encouraging on your journey. Don't forget to hit subscribe so you never miss a future episode. And if you enjoyed today's conversation, I'd be so grateful if you left a quick review. It helps others find the show.

    For more information, visit Resources and links mentioned in this episode. Be sure to check out the show notes. You can also connect with me on Instagram at breathandbirth. co for more support and inspiration until next time, remember you've got this and you're never alone in this journey.

Vanessa Bauman
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