The Audacity to Birth Your way with Birth Doula Megan Neal
In this episode of the Breath and Birth Co. podcast, host Vanessa, an experienced birth doula and childbirth educator, talks with fellow doula Megan Neal of Birth Your Way about their experiences in the birth support field, including inspirations, challenges, and the importance of advocacy. Megan shares her journey into birth work, misconceptions about labor, and the roles of support partners. They discuss the importance of developing confidence, creating a calm birthing environment, and building a supportive village during pregnancy. The conversation emphasizes the critical role of doulas and other professionals, like pelvic health therapists, in supporting a positive birth experience. Vanessa and Megan offer practical advice for birthing individuals and their partners to feel empowered and informed throughout the pregnancy and birthing process.
“She's listening. She hears what's going on. And the answer is no. That's why she's just continuing to do what she's doing. If she wanted her water broke or wanted more Pitocin or wanted an epidural, believe me, she would be saying so.”
- Megan Neal
Megan’s Recommended Reading:
Discovering a Passion for Birth Work
Megan’s journey into the world of birth work began with her own childbirth experience. Watching and learning from her doula inspired Megan to step into this role herself, realizing that she could support others through their unique journeys. Her story highlights a common theme: many doulas feel "called" into the profession instead of actively seeking it out. The initial seeds of interest often grow through personal experiences, leading to a lifelong commitment to advocating for better birthing experiences.
The Misconceptions of Labor
A significant aspect of our conversation was addressing common misconceptions about pregnancy, birth, and postpartum. Megan emphasized a key misunderstanding: you won't fully understand labor until you experience it. Many expectant parents inquire whether they'll handle labor adequately, but Megan suggests that true preparation involves the inner conviction that you can indeed handle it—this audacity and belief in oneself are game-changers.
The Role of Advocacy in Birth
Advocacy emerged as a cornerstone of our discussion. In Megan’s experience, advocacy begins with education and is supported by a well-crafted, flexible birth plan. She emphasized the importance of having discussions about birth preferences both before and during labor with the care team and partners. Her story of a birth partner actively advocating during labor highlighted the powerful impact of small acts in maintaining the birth space's integrity.
Building Your Village
Preparing for birth involves cultivating a supportive network, or "village," around you. Megan suggests starting this process early—right when you find out you're pregnant. Consider doula support, childbirth classes, and aligning with supportive care providers. The village doesn’t stop at professional support; it's also about creating a personal network that genuinely aligns with your birth vision.
The Importance of Specialized Support
Throughout our conversation, Megan underscored the value of engaging with a range of professionals during pregnancy and postpartum. From pelvic health therapists to chiropractors, each specialist plays a vital role in preparing both body and mind for labor. Megan shared personal insights, particularly about the gentle, impactful care of pelvic health therapy, emphasizing it's not just about the physical aspects but also emotional and mental well-being.
Moving Toward Empowerment and Confidence
Confidence, rooted in education and preparation, is essential for a positive birth experience. Megan's advice for birthing partners is to be active participants—not just bystanders. Attending childbirth classes together, encouraging healthy habits, and being aligned with birth preferences are crucial steps.
Looking Ahead in Maternity Care
When asked about changes she'd like to see in maternity care, Megan pointed to a need for more personalized care and humility within the medical community. She hopes for an environment where providers are trained and encouraged to suggest home births or alternative care when it best serves the patient’s desires.
The Ever-Evolving Journey of Birth Work
Finally, Megan shared what keeps her passionate about birth work—the continuous learning and unique experiences each birth offers. Every story is different, every outcome teaches something new, and every experience reinforces the meaningfulness of her work.
Connect with Megan
🌿 Want to connect with Megan Neal or learn more about her services?
You can find her @birth__your__way or check out her offerings on her website.
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00:00 Introduction to the Breath and Birth Co. Podcast
00:47 Meet Megan Neal: A Journey into Birth Work
03:30 The Role of Confidence in Childbirth
07:49 Advocacy in the Birthing Process
13:37 Memorable Experiences and Lessons Learned
23:20 Creating a Calm and Empowered Birth Experience
28:02 Building Your Village: Support During Pregnancy and Beyond
30:12 The Importance of Having a Doula
31:13 Building Your Support Village
33:21 Professional Support During Pregnancy
34:43 The Role of Pelvic Floor Specialists
42:24 Chiropractors and Other Professionals
43:55 Preparing Partners for Labor and Delivery
46:52 Recommended Books and Resources
48:16 Changes Needed in Maternity Care
51:38 Staying Passionate in Birth Work
56:26 Final Thoughts and Encouragement
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Vanessa: Welcome to the Breath and Birth Co. podcast. I'm Vanessa, a hospital based, DONA- International certified birth doula and passionate childbirth educator. I love to merge the power of your intuition with the precision of modern medicine to help you navigate pregnancy and birth your way. Each week we kick off with Monday meditations to bring calm and connection to your pregnancy.
Then we build your confidence through insights, birth stories, and care provider perspectives during thoughtful Thursdays. Ready to feel supported, informed, and empowered? Hit subscribe to the Breath and Birth Co. podcast today and let's embark on this transformational journey together. As a reminder, any information shared here is not medical advice.
For more details, visit breathandbirthco. com slash disclaimer.
I'm here with Megan Neal today, and she's a Columbus area doula with a background in massage therapy. She's been through a myriad of trainings around the pregnant body, one of which is actually what brought us together. We're currently both In Columbus Yoga Teacher Training's prenatal YTT course, and it's been great to have a fellow doula in that space with me. Alright, let's dive in.
What inspired you to pursue a career in birth work, Megan?
Megan Neal: Oh, um, so I had my own birth. I was always interested in birth and did like the, the child birth classes, like in high school, they had, I can't remember what they called it now, but it was basically just like about babies and birth and pregnancy. Um, but, and then after, you know, just always knowing that I wanted babies and then when I finally got pregnant, I was like, oh my gosh, what do I do and I just like dove into all the things so, the documentaries and the books and childbirth ed and all of that led me to looking into a doula. So I interviewed several, the one I ended up choosing was a newer doula, and it's just cause we vibed like that was literally, I just wanted somebody who I knew was going to like be a good presence in my space.
And she's so she totally was. Having that good experience with my doula without getting too deep into my birth story right away off the bat here Made me feel like wow, I could do that. Like I have given birth now I've done all of this research about birth and I could do this for other people So like having a new doula really gave me the confidence to be a new doula.
If that makes sense
Vanessa: mm-hmm
Megan Neal: Yeah, and then it just sort of like snowballed from there because it always starts as like a me like for me, it always starts as like a maybe I could do this. And then, yeah. The more I learned about like birth inequities and, just like everything that's going on in the system and people just not being listened to, it really got me more into like the advocacy side of, of doula work and yeah, it just snowballed and I'm, I'm stuck.
I'm stuck here forever.
Vanessa: You found your place.
Megan Neal: it.
Vanessa: , I feel like I've, I've said before and I've heard other doulas say like doula work and birth work found me,
Megan Neal: Yeah, truly. Yeah.
Vanessa: wasn't necessarily out looking for it, but like, you said it, based on my experience with my doula and my birth story, it was like, oh, like I want, I feel like every birthing person should feel like how I felt.
Megan Neal: Yes.
Vanessa: And, um, yeah, what's one of the biggest misconceptions you see about, uh, pregnancy, birth, or postpartum?
Megan Neal: Um,
that, I don't know if it's a misconception, but the one thing that I wish people would understand is that, you're not gonna understand what the feeling of laboring is like until you do it. , everyone's trying to prepare for it. People are always like, Megan, how do I know if I'm going to be able to handle labor and like the sensations of labor and the people usually call it pain?
How do I know? And then like, how do I prepare myself to be able to handle that? And like, we have strategies, of course. And like, we have things we can show people and all of that, but. The reality is like, just knowing that you can, like, you have to actually like conjure the confidence that this, this audacity almost like, obviously, obviously I can handle this.
You have to go into it like that, as opposed to like questioning yourself every step of the way. And depending on other people to, , tell you that you can do it. Cause I can tell you, you could do it all day, but, you have to believe it.
Vanessa: Mm hmm.
Megan Neal: So, I don't know if that answers your question, but that's been on my heart.
Vanessa: Yeah. Um, no, I love that. And that is actually one of the pillars in my CBE course too, is the confidence. because I feel like once you are prepared and you have the information, it makes it a little less scary, if you will.
Megan Neal: Mm hmm.
Vanessa: and going into it with that confidence really is a game changer, aside from the calm peace and any coping mechanisms that you may actually need to use in the moment. , I love the, the verbage you use, like the audacity
Megan Neal: Yeah.
Vanessa: to approach your birth and labor. In a way that you know that you can do it, that it's possible and that your body is capable,
Megan Neal: Mm hmm.
Vanessa: your mind, because let's be honest, your mind, I think is the biggest piece of it
Megan Neal: Oh, yeah.
Vanessa: to get over.
Megan Neal: Yes. And maybe that's the biggest misconception is that there's the physical element is the hardest thing to get over, but in reality, yeah, it's the mental part that you really have to. figure out, I guess. And there's no figuring it out either. This is the hardest conversation that I have with clients.
Cause it's just like, you just have to allow it to be, you just have to believe and it might be too that I have a difficult time with this part because I did go into my births with the audacity and it was in, you're right. Like, it was partially like that. I had constantly been You know, reading about and listening to stories about birth for a long time before I ever got pregnant and had this really good reinforcement, behind me, behind my idea that I could do it rather than a lot of the stuff that's out there about birth is, you know, first off there's like , the dramatization in movies shows you stuff that like we all kind of laugh at and sort of cringe at sometimes.
, But then, you know, now we have social media. I have my first baby in 2015, which so social media wasn't as big of a thing. Um, but now there's just like these short clip videos of like horror stories and comments of people , on positive videos of comments that are like, Oh, but mine, I would have died or like, whatever, whatever this crazy stuff that we hear about on social media.
Um, So I think in the role of a childbirth educator and a doula and anybody in the birth space, it's becoming increasingly difficult to convince people that they actually are capable of this. Like it. Yeah. I, we need, we need, I don't know what we need. Someone tell me what we need. I don't know.
Vanessa: I know if we had the answer, you probably wouldn't need to be here, right?
Megan Neal: Exactly. Oh yeah. That isn't that.
Vanessa: and advocate.
Megan Neal: Isn't that the dream that people could just go into birth and they wouldn't need any advocacy, they could just do births.
Vanessa: Yeah, absolutely.
Megan Neal: Oh, man. Yeah.
Vanessa: so speaking of that, actually, my next question was what role does advocacy play in the birthing process and how can parents prepare for it?
Megan Neal: Oh, boy. , well, the education piece, right? And, and what we just talked about, like, going in with, with the audacity, with the confidence that what you decided in your birth plan, so we're making a birth plan. A lot of misconceptions about birth plans to, I think there's people that, comment that it's sort of like a checklist of demands and, um, could be how some people approach it.
I have seen, commentary around birth plans that kind of. that's what they're doing. Uh, the way I approach birth planning is very much like I have like this extensive worksheet that I have people go through and it's essentially so that they can identify things they didn't know they didn't know.
Like, you know, I didn't know there was all these options for C section. I didn't know that I could ask them to turn off Pitocin. Like I didn't know those things., and that's really what birth planning is about. And then communicating. Those desires to your birth team beforehand and having the printout for your nurses in the moment.
It's all those things, you know, communication, educating first, communicating second, and then just really holding your ground. And this is where I see things getting messy in the birth space is, okay, you've done all, you know, you know that this is what you want, you know, all the information and like, Now you're laboring and your logical brain is shut off.
There is no thinking through things. Um, but if you have a really pushy provider, which that's kind of another layer is like making sure you get a provider that,, specializes in attending the kind of birth that you're looking for, that can kind of eliminate some of this, like having to reinforce, what your desires are over and over again, , or at all really.
That's a huge, that's a huge conversation. Um, and then, you know, having somebody there with you, I have seen partners, husbands, boyfriends, girlfriends, I've seen them all like in various. Abilities to be able to advocate. I've seen, I, Oh, the last birth I attended, like I could have like, just hot, like kiss this man because he literally sat in front of the door.
Cause the nurse,, would not stop coming in like every 20 minutes as nurses coming in
Vanessa: video,
Megan Neal: you know, the
I'm going
birthing person, she was
how
she had an epidural, she was exhausted. She'd been laboring forever. Um, and she was right at the end. And everyone's getting a little nervous because her water had been broken for a while and, basically the providers were nervous, the birthing couple was not, and they wanted them to stop coming in.
And so he sat and he kept them from coming in like three times in a row. He was like, no, thank you. Please come back later. No, thank you. And I was just like, yes. It was so awesome to watch because I always tell people as a doula, I can come in there and I am willing to speak for you.
I am not afraid to speak for you, but they are not going to listen to me as well as they're going to listen to you.
Vanessa: hmm.
Megan Neal: Coming from your mouth, legally, if you say you don't want something, they can't do it. If I say you don't want something, and you've expressed that several times, uh, You know, it depends on the provider, you know, it depends on the nurse depends on a lot of different factors.
So your doula is gonna be there saying hey, I know you've said this before but they want you to say it again or You know Personally on a personal level when I'm laboring and somebody's asking me the same stuff over and over again. I'm ignoring them I'm literally not saying anything to them at all And then your doula's role is to help counsel your partner, whoever your partner is there that's helping to make decisions, to say she's ignoring them because she doesn't want it.
If she wanted it, she would say so. Like, and that can be really hard for partners to Like be put in that position to make that decision. But honestly she's listening. She hears what's going on. And the answer is no. That's why she's just continuing to do what she's doing. If she wanted her water broke or wanted more Pitocin or wanted an epidural, believe me, she would be saying so.
Vanessa: Right.
Megan Neal: He's saying so, um, so that, yeah, it advocacy is, is a long, um, can be a long sort of complicated discussion, but going in knowing what you want is number 1 for sure.
Vanessa: I loved sharing that little story, um, because I think for birth partners out there who might be listening, it truly is those small moments that can make a world of difference
Megan Neal: Oh, yeah,
Vanessa: a The birth story in terms of like literally just sitting at the door and saying, no, thank you.
That,
Megan Neal: mm hmm.
Vanessa: for some people might take a little bit more courage and oomph than others, but that simple act is protecting that birthing space for your partner, which is part of advocacy. You know, you're, you're giving space, you're protecting the space, for what you've all agreed to is the is your birth preferences or your birth plan.
So so thank you for sharing that Okay. Next question is can you share a memorable experience that shaped your approach to supporting families?
Megan Neal: Oh, every single birth, every single birth I go to, and like,
Vanessa: I Agree a hundred percent
Megan Neal: it used to make me feel really guilty because I usually leave birth going, okay, what could I have done different? You know, and that's, that's really the honest truth. And we listen, we don't judge. Okay, guys, because I think if you're not learning something from every birth you go to, then you're just.
You're going to be stuck and you know, you don't grow. I would say probably,
I feel like this is cliche in our light of work, but like the first 10 births that I attended were probably the most crucial for me. , learning to be in the birth space. As a support person, rather than the birthing person, sort of getting a feel for what the hospital culture was and then ending up at a different hospital and learning what their culture is and learning that that can be completely different depending on the hospital you go to.
Okay, so this is something that I think about every time I go to birth and it hasn't happened again since. the first birth I ever went to, um, it was very long, first birth, we went to the hospital too early, all the things. , but , she was working through it and I don't even remember how many hours, uh, we were in, maybe 12 or 16, which, isn't actually that long, but, she was tired and, she hadn't gotten epidural yet. She was trying to rest and contractions are slowing down. And the nurses pulled me outside of the room and they said, what do you think? What should we do? And I just felt so. Like, uh, I, like, I, I felt put on the spot. I didn't, I wasn't sure if like they knew I was new and they were just trying to like coerce me into convincing her to get an epidural and it really felt like I questioned myself a lot and I still don't know what the purpose of bringing me, I hope that it was because they truly thought like I had something to give to the situation.
Like if I did have something to give, I would have conversed with my client. So anyway, it's, it, um, that is a situation that I thought, think of a lot. And I often think, what would I do if that happened again? And, you know, like 50 plus births later. It's never happened. Never, never. I've worked with nurses in the room with families.
Never, like they've never pulled me aside like that again. So it was, it was an interesting situation for sure.
Vanessa: And I think all of that kind of goes, into the conversation, too, of the politics of birthing in a hospital and the position of a birth doula in terms of toeing that line between. Respecting the medical team and their expertise
Megan Neal: Absolutely.
Vanessa: that you have a specific place as well for your client and you were hired by your client and so you also represent them and their wants.
But like you said earlier, it's not speaking for them is not effective and it's not truly our purpose. We advocate through them., we empower them to advocate for themselves and we're here. There have been a lot of situations I'm sure both of us can speak to where, the hospital care team has maybe not, been fully on board with our presence in the room, you know,
Megan Neal: Oh yeah.
Vanessa: and you don't want any animosity for that situation to impede on your client's birth story or impact how they are Interact with your clients because you are there. Um, can be very, it can be a very tricky situation. And like I said, you kind of have to toe that line in fulfilling your obligation to your clients while also not, adding or, or contributing to any tension in the space between the birth team and your client.
Megan Neal: Yes. And look, let me tell you, I went into birth work, like It's us against the system. And that's what a lot of my clients were to thinking, like, we're going to have to go in there and like really fight, like images of me having to like step between a provider and a client, like that kind of thing.
That's the kind of like, Hmm, image that I was getting from stories. That I was hearing, um, at that time and look, there are providers who will go in for an episiotomy after explicitly being told not to, and I'm not saying that there aren't doulas that haven't had to do this kind of thing before.
And that's kind of. I, I went in like ready to do that kind of thing. Like, do I, will I need to actually keep birth rate from happening? Like, you know what I like that? I mean, it's obstetrical violence type of stuff. And like, honestly, I've been like so lucky to not see anything like that. I've never seen anybody explicitly just ignore someone, um, or like tell them their pain isn't real or anything like that.
And it's been such. Such a weight off as a doula in this area, at least, um, to not have to have dealt with some, I've only dealt with really one, um, OB. He happened to be male. I don't know. We'll just take that for what we will, who was,, aggressive towards me. not my client, but literally there, there's not been any other situation like that in.
Um, the more I've gotten to know the medical staff around here, none of them are perfect. You know, they all have to, they all have to abide by,
Vanessa: so
Megan Neal: that
Vanessa: going
Megan Neal: be in the best interest of the family that I'm working with. Um, and that, that's where the advocacy comes in and that's
Vanessa: started.
Megan Neal: like, okay, we're not coming in like guns blazing.
We don't have to be like. You know, fighting for everybody all the time. Sometimes it's fine.
Vanessa: Yeah,
Megan Neal: Everything's fine. Um, so anyone like who's listening, who's pregnant, who's like, advocacy a advocacy, oh my gosh, that sounds scary. And it can feel like you need to hire a doula in order to advocate for you. And I have had families like this that are like, I just want you here, , to advocate for me. And it has to be this whole big discussion where it's like, okay, I'm going to help you advocate for yourself and we're going to work through that.
And that's why I do four visits. And that's why I do pieces of, childbirth education and also recommend that they go to a class and also read the books and listen to the podcast and like do all the things. Um, because yeah, it's, it doesn't have to be scary. Everything can be fine.
Vanessa: yeah,
And you mentioned earlier to the importance of finding a care provider that aligns with the birth that you envision, which is so important in getting ahead of the need to constantly advocate for yourself during your labor. And so there is that piece to that, like, there's education, but there's also finding a provider that really aligns and doesn't do the bait and switch on you.
Megan Neal: Oh, yeah, that's frustrating. Yeah.
Vanessa: And in terms of, like you said, I'm not going in guns blazing. I found this like happy middle ground where I can step up and help my client advocate for themselves, but also, be part of the team with.
The medical staff and I think it for any doulas listening. It can be simple things like, if you've tried a bunch of positions and the nurses coming in and taking vitals and stuff, like maybe just have a conversation with the nurse and say, Okay, these are these are the positions we've tried. What are your ideas?
And and I found that a lot of times nurses will ask, well, have you tried this or what do you think about this? And it turns into a real conversation where everybody in the room can contribute their thoughts or say like, oh, that did feel good or that didn't feel good. Or, oh, we actually haven't done that in a few hours.
So yeah, like, let's go back to that. And, it's an invitation basically for everybody's egos to kind of be leveled out. If that makes sense,
Megan Neal: Oh, that's such a good. Yes. Yeah. Because like a lot of the nurses,
Vanessa: I, I appreciate, I respect your opinion,
Megan Neal: yeah.
Vanessa: like, you're, you're also in turn asking me and what my thoughts are, and we're a team and we're working together here.
Megan Neal: huh. Uh huh. The only issue that I've had with that, cause yeah, that's where I've landed. I'm like, Oh, these nurses are actually trained in spinning babies and they actually like want to try to help people get this unmedicated. Vaginal birth that they're looking for, like, okay. And that was like my first 10 births.
That's what I mean. Like I was, I had to really soften, like realize like, Oh, we're not fighting.
Vanessa: Um, Do you have some practical tips for creating a calm and empowered birth experience? Yeah, so maybe,
Megan Neal: There's a lot behind that, but essentially, you know, a lot of the stuff that even just leaving your house. can affect the way your labor goes. , so if you're having a healthy pregnancy, you have a healthy baby, you're a generally a healthy person.
And I would even add, you're the kind of person who seeks to improve your health, um, because your midwife is going to be going through with you, like nutrition tip things and how to improve your health. On so many levels, which OBs don't do, it's frustrating, or I should just say hospital providers in general.
So you, you do kind of have to be the type of person who is willing to work with your provider rather than just like having somebody tell you what you're supposed to be doing, if that makes sense. But if, I mean, if you fall into that category, then there's the financial part and all, you know, it's complicated, but if you can stay home.
And have your baby at home and you're looking for a physiological birth where people just generally leave you alone, uh, stay at home. And if you are early on in your pregnancy, don't think it's too early to find a midwife because they book up so quickly around here. It's ridiculous.
Vanessa: Yes. Yeah, and even, and even in terms of stay home, that can mean literally have a home birth,
Megan Neal: Yup. Gosh. Yes, yes, yes, yes. Yeah.
Vanessa: take, especially for first time birthers, and stay home truly as long as you can. Um, yes, because,, and you can speak to this too, I'm sure.
That transition from home to the hospital, even if it's planned, it, resets your nervous system, and it can stall labor. You're no longer in the comforts of home and that does impact your labor in terms of progression, how you can cope on like a nervous system level. So just understand that the longer that you stay home and the further you can progress, the less. interventions will likely happen to you when you do arrive at the hospital,, and the further along you are, the less likely, that transition is to impact and, and truly stall out your labor and your contractions.
Megan Neal: Yeah, and that's what a doula can just be so valuable in those situations because I can't tell you especially first time birth second time birth since the fall on the other side of the spectrum where they're like Oh, no, everything's fine. And you're like, please go to the hospital Like if you don't want to have your baby here, but you gotta go.
Um, but first time births, you just, you've never felt this before and it can be intense and there's parts of labor that, you know, everybody talks about transition right before you push, right? From that eight to 10, how intense that is. Um, but there's like other walls that you have to scale throughout labor.
And I tell people like, you know, around four centimeters, things are going to feel different around six centimeters. Things are going to feel different and you're going to have to find a new rhythm. And, it's usually around that six centimeter point where people are like, I think it's time. I think it's time to go to the hospital.
And I'm like, we can. But you are probably going to be laboring there for a long time, and that's, that's up to you. Just know that from what I'm seeing, it seems like you're going to still be in labor for a while. And that is not a conversation that I'd like to have with people. I don't want to even bring time into their brains during labor.
But also, if I know they wanted to labor at home as long as possible. I'm going to bring it up if they're talking about going to hospital, seriously. , sometimes we just say things during contractions. Let me tell you, if you hire me as a doula and you say something during the contraction, I'm not listening because you are allowed to say whatever you want during a contraction.
Do not hold back for any reason at all. Scream. I want to epidural scream. Just cut this baby out of me, whatever it is you need to say. And then. Once you fully come down from your contraction, if you want to talk about doing that, then we can talk about it, but usually it's just a resting period and then we move on into the next action and you're screaming about things again.
Um, and then again, it comes back to me counseling your partner on she's fine. She's just,
Vanessa: hmm. Yeah.
Megan Neal: I don't even know what we're talking about. No, staying home.
Vanessa: How about, um, any advice for somebody building their village during pregnancy in terms of, what, what does a village mean to you? Who all is in it? What are some things that, you would Request that they do.
Megan Neal: Yeah. Um, yeah. You mean for the birth or like postpartum or both or?
Vanessa: Yeah, both, I guess. Yeah, village overall, because I think we hear the term it takes a village in terms of raising children. , but truly a village should be starting before and during pregnancy too, in my opinion.
Megan Neal: Oh, absolutely. Well, yeah. So as far as building a village for birth, I feel like I've said this a few times, but, you know, as soon as you find out you're pregnant.
Just start it can feel really overwhelming and you feel like you want to do like everything all at the same time But just start with something I think honestly people are talking about do a childbirth class and you're like The start of your third trimester end of your second trimester, but I just think do it right away like just do it Because everything you do after that is just gonna reinforce everything that you learned in your class Um, and so, and you might find that maybe that childbirth class is not the one you vibe with.
You don't really vibe with maybe the relaxation techniques or maybe the way it was taught. It wasn't, maybe it was online and you want something in person or vice versa. Like it, you have to just start learning about yourself and what you need during this time in your life. And nobody can tell you that we can all try.
We can give you what worked for us. Um, yeah, so you just have to start moving through it. And then, you know, once you got your childbirth class, and at least the first one, I'm a big nerd. I'm like, take all the glasses. Um, you know, a doula can be really helpful. Maybe you get a doula first so they can guide you to a class they think might vibe with you better, you know, than the, you know, so you can do that either way.
Either way works. Um,
Vanessa: Silence.
Megan Neal: doula. Childbirth class, right? And these are the three that I recommend to every single person. I don't care if you choose me as your doula. I am not the doula for everyone, okay? But I do think that everyone can benefit from a doula in some capacity.
There are doulas that will come and help you just Um, like labor at home and maybe you don't want him to go to the hospital or vice versa. Maybe you don't want him there at your house, but maybe you just want him to go to the hospital with you or you just want prenatal care and you don't want anything to do with your birth.
Like, you can, you have the ability to choose these things, but I think you should have a doula. Um,
Vanessa: Silence.
Megan Neal: it like all of these things and just know that you can always change your provider if that one doesn't end up vibing with, um, how you want to do birth later on.
Um, so yeah, that's your village to start like the very beginning. Um, and then, you know, think of like non professional village. So like,
Vanessa: you
Megan Neal: talking to about birth? Are you talking to your mother in law that only wants to talk about her traumatic experience? Maybe you're setting some boundaries with her.
Vanessa: do it. very
Megan Neal: Are you moving into spaces that align with how you feel about birth? Maybe you want a physiological birth. Or maybe tried for physiological birth and it didn't work out.
And what did that look like? And I think that is a really good piece to have in that kind of a space too. And if your desire is to be induced, also, same. Like whatever, whatever your desire is for birth, like.
sink into that space. Um, postpartum is a whole, you know, you planning for that again during pregnancy.
Um, and I think that comes naturally. Um, if you're in those spaces with people who have given birth before, because eventually they're going to start talking about, like, what postpartum looked like for them. And you're going to see right away,, okay, maybe I didn't want my mother in law there regarding her birth stories, but like, she would be great to make me some meals, to freeze before birth happens, and that can help with that relationship part too. Like, hey, you know, all respect, I really don't want to hear your story anymore. Like, however you want to say that, , it's just, it's not helping to promote the kind of birth that I want. But I know, , I really love this casserole that you make.
Could you make me one or two of those casseroles so I can have it postpartum? Because the reason people tell you their birth stories is because they want to help. They feel like they're helping. They're like, I need her to know about this terrible thing that can happen.
It's sometimes it comes from a place of like, I don't ever get to tell my story. So this person wants to hear it. But, giving family members, especially people who love you. They just, they just want to help. So giving them something to do, that's actually going to be helpful. I don't know. I could go on for days.
Um, and
Vanessa: And I think to in terms of village. I love how you touched on professional village and also personal village. And I would even go as far to say that the, the professional village, , can and probably should include what I recommend more people than just OB a doula too. , what are your thoughts on that in terms of like other professionals that you recommend your clients seeing during pregnancy and postpartum?
Megan Neal: Yeah. See, this is such a big conversation. So yeah, like, um, we're going through prenatal yoga teacher training and I personally didn't do yoga during my pregnancies. And every time I think back, I'm just like, why not? And, my why is because I was afraid I was really into fitness before I got pregnant.
And as soon as I got pregnant, it was something that I wanted so badly that I was scared to do anything. , so I stopped. So one, you need people in your spaces that are doing these things so you can see that it's safe to do. And Instagram is beautiful for this because you can see people moving their bodies in this way.
Vanessa: Mm-hmm . Mm-hmm
Megan Neal: Um, So, you know, movement, right? So any sort of movement, professional yoga, , if you're into weightlifting, like don't stop, just find somebody who is knowledgeable about pregnancy, who you can work with, um, whatever it is, swimming, whatever. And then,, I love a client who works with a pelvic floor specialist.
Like when they tell me they work with a pelvic floor specialist, I was like, yes, because not only does it give you like the skills to prepare for birth physically, but also it. A pelvic floor specialist is connecting you. With your pelvic floor, which is such a, like, we're told it's such an icky thing and we don't think about it.
We don't talk about it. And you know, we, we don't touch it unless we're cleaning it real quick. Like you don't, and a pelvic floor specialist is like, no, this is a total normal part of your body. There's bones, there's muscles, there's tendons and you know, stuff going on in there that like can affect the way your birth goes and.
Yeah, it's totally safe and okay to acknowledge that. So I love a pelvic floor specialist, , massage therapist. Um, there's different kinds. Like I was the type of massage therapist that was more of like a. Let's go to your happy place kind of massage therapist. Not that we weren't like working deeply into the muscle, but it was again, slow and easy, right?
Warming things up, getting deep into muscle tissue slowly. , so that you can also like have that, like mental release. And then there's those medical massage therapists that'll be like, all right, we're going to do the thing. Let's get you fixed. Let's, you know, crank you around. And like, that just depends on what you're looking for at the massage therapist.
But,, other professionals, , mental health therapists. Uh, what is that? This, there's a newer EMDR. What is it?
Vanessa: Yes. EMDR, which I've actually done and I plan to have an episode on it too, hopefully soon.
Megan Neal: Yeah, good. Yeah, because I feel like that's a whole conversation. It's kind of a new thing really know. So I'll be listening to that. Um,
yeah, just combining like maybe even like your clergy person, like maybe they're like the person that just like helps you to work things out. Think about Spiritually, mentally and physically, what will benefit you? What feels good to move into for you? , and that could change throughout your pregnancy and postpartum and parenthood and , just expect it to change.
Um, and like, be willing to just sort of flow with that.
Vanessa: Yeah. I say that, um, pelvic health physical therapy is like my number
Megan Neal: Yes. Yes.
Vanessa: that aligns with what you want to two is get educated Three is a pelvic health therapist during pregnancy and through postpartum Yeah, and like you said it's because you need to be connected To your body and to the anatomy of your body and really set it up for best success and like you said anytime as a doula I hear somebody seeing a pelvic health therapist it's like, okay get it you get it and you're and even if I don't know that because Any of my clients really I don't know them before active labor , since I work for the hospital program, but like if it hasn't come up in conversation yet, I can tell immediately during the pushing phase if
Megan Neal: Yes.
Vanessa: a pelvic floor there.
It's just like their pushes are so effective. They're so in tune with when and how and how to breathe through them. Um, it can really make all of the difference , in that phase of your labor too.
Megan Neal: If we have such great pelvic floor therapists here, like,
Vanessa: So many
Megan Neal: like there's so many and they all are just so in tune with what the pregnant body needs and how to prepare for birth. Like when I first heard somebody who's going to pelvic floor therapist, I was like, okay, I was a little skeptical. I was like, okay, they're, they're working out the pelvic floor.
That's good. But then somebody was like, Oh yeah, we're working on breathing techniques. And pushing positions and all this. And I'm just like, Oh my God. Absolutely.
Vanessa: there's different,, ways to approach it too. I think sometimes, and I hope to have several episodes, if not at least one with, uh, pelvic Health Physical Therapist , to go over the specifics and their expertise. But, I know from having conversations, They can approach it however you feel comfortable.
I think some people are maybe a little bit nervous or apprehensive around people like just touching them, and there can be a no or low touch session, you can just talk through things or you can, you know, they can touch on a model, you know, this is, This is what we're looking at now, or this is what, these breathing techniques can help you with, um, so anybody that's listening, that's just totally like, that's not for me, just understand that there, there can be a wide range of how, your experience of the pelvic health therapist, , can be,
Megan Neal: Yeah. I have personal experience.
Vanessa: all,
Megan Neal: Yeah.
Vanessa: Oh, go ahead.
Megan Neal: No. Yeah. I have personal experience with, um, not wanting to go to a pelvic floor therapist because I was like, you know, I just, I don't want anybody in there.
Vanessa: Yeah, exactly.
Megan Neal: so I actually professionally connected with a pelvic floor therapist and had to really ease in that way, like had a lot of conversations about how she worked and everything.
And I don't think you need to be professionally connected. Like you can just have a consult call, you know, or whatever. But, um, finally went. Because she was like, I absolutely don't have to do an internal exam and I'm like, oh my god, let's go. Let's do this I'm tired of peeing in my pants and So, , I went and yeah the first visit like She just did like postural assessments and sort of asked me about what kind of exercises I was doing and what my day looked like.
And then just gave me a few exercises to start out with. And by the second visit I was like, okay, do the, internal exam because it does give them more information. Um, it's not just for nothing. And that was kind of my first thought. I was like, well, if you can do it without the internal exam, why do you do?
But it does give them. More information., because they can just feel the muscles in there and like viewing it in that way of like, okay, like knowing what they were doing, I think helped me like, okay, they're just feeling the muscles in there and how they're situated and what's tight and what's not. And the whole time she was doing it.
Um, I will say like, I had to disassociate a couple of times and it wasn't even on purpose. Like it just happened and she was just waited. Yeah. Yeah. Um, and so like, that was really cool. And like, I'm getting a little bit emotional thinking about it because like, I've never had somebody so in tune with like the needs of the female body.
Like. It really, it was amazing. And she explained to me, she's like, can you feel that? And if I said no, she would just like stay there. She's like, okay, there's something going on here. So whenever you come back, like you let me know, I'm like, oh yeah, I did feel that. I think I disassociated.
She's like, yeah, I think you did. It can be that gentle and all the whole time, like before she started during the exam, she's like, you know, if you want me to stop at any time, just like, let me know. And, um, the reason I'm naming the pelvic floor therapist is because they're all like this, like, they all are like this.
Um, so, like, just find somebody you vibe with and it's going to be like this for you. I promise. , you're not looking at like a, you know, a medical. Hospital provider situation. We have to figure out who's actually in tune with physiological birth. Like you just, these pelvic floor therapists, this is their specialty that they're good at this.
Um, but another professional that I skipped over somehow is chiropractors. Um, I love, I love a client who works with a chiropractor. I love Susanne Piccola. I will say her name. She's very specific and she works with soft tissue and, she will go like she'll work on your pelvic floor stuff And I just learned that with a current client of mine who it's like, yeah, she she gets in there.
I'm like, okay, I Didn't know that so, uh, you know Chiropractors will vary you'll see somebody they specialize in Webster technique, which is pregnancy specific
Vanessa: Mm hmm.
Megan Neal: But there are chiropractors who go beyond just a Webster technique that you know, they're working on your fascia and that's a huge piece I think a lot of chiropractors miss and they're just looking to align your bones, which is great but Just from a birth worker perspective, massage therapist perspective, uh, kinesiology enthusiast perspective.
Uh, I, I love Suzanne and like no matter how far you have to drive, like I would try her out at least one time. 'cause she's amazing.
Vanessa: Thank you for sharing your personal story with Pelvic Health Therapy, because that's exactly what, I was, I was getting at, you know, that it, it's much more approachable than I think people realize and it can be the impact that it can have on your birth story, your birth experience, , are so huge that it's worth,, perhaps exploring, even if you're a bit hesitant, Okay. How can partners and support, people best prepare for labor and delivery? So, not the birther themselves, but anybody else that will be attending in that space, essentially.
Megan Neal: Yeah, so attend the childbirth class, every single one, you don't just pick and choose, like, make sure you choose a childbirth class that you can both go to. That would be my first. Um, I mean, as a doula, I work with partners. And, like, help them with hands on stuff, because I do find, like, even if you learn it in childbirth class, like, it's nice to actually, like, go over it a few more times after that.
I love a partner who, um, reminds pregnant folks hey, have you been drinking water? Hey, have you practiced your exercises? Should we go walking? Because some of us, me included, , have to be encouraged a little bit more to do those things and during pregnancy, especially towards the end, it's like, you're so tired, you just, you don't want to.
So , it's nice to have, um, an encouraging partner and one that's not afraid to remind you that. So yeah, that's, you take the childbirth classes and I would say it's not necessary for you to read the exact same books. As your partner,
Vanessa: Yeah,
Megan Neal: preconception. Can we talk about that?
Like,
Vanessa: absolutely.
Megan Neal: so we're just getting information about how the health of male partners can actually affect the health of a pregnant person. So, uh, so like things like preeclampsia and things like that can be affected by , the health of the male partner.
And I won't get too deep into it. Cause for one, I'm not an expert for two, uh, just time. Um, but just know that like, Hey, maybe move your body around a little bit more, maybe eat some more vegetables and, you know, more whatever, like, um, just like. Try to move in that direction as much as you can. ,
there's so many things I could say here.
Vanessa: Well, I think, and we did touch a little bit on that, too, in some of the stories and the advice you were giving earlier on to, In the advocacy piece and just small ways that what that can look like, um, in aligning and being informed on your partner's birth preferences so that you know, going into it and throughout the labor process, you know where you can step in and advocate for that.
So I think we covered that.
Megan Neal: Yeah.
Vanessa: So the next question was, um, about any books or tools or, Podcasts like you, you've mentioned before, um, that you would recommend people, um, start listening to as well. You mentioned the birth partner, which I agree that's a very popular one for partners, um, but this question would be for anybody, for birthing people or partners.
Any specific things that you're always telling your clients, okay, read
Megan Neal: Yeah,
Vanessa: or watch this or
Megan Neal: So, I love the Art of Breastfeeding, which is the new version of the Le Leche League, um, book. It used to be called the Womanly Art of Breastfeeding, and they realized that not only women breastfeed. Um, and then, The Fourth Trimester, I love, for postpartum.
Those are my two postpartum picks. Look, like it was my favorite book. I read it for both of my pregnancies. I give it to everybody Birthing From Within. Birthing From Within is my favorite favorite. I just, it really, it hits on so much more than like the physical preparation and like knowing about the hospital policies and things like that.
It's, I really feel like it's the soul work that everybody's looking for. She came out with a new book recently she's a certified nurse midwife.
Vanessa: Awesome. I'll include that in the show notes for everybody too. I've got two more questions. , what's one change you wish you could see in maternity care today?
Megan Neal: Um,
Vanessa: can't narrow it down to one, I'll, I'll accept two. Right.
Megan Neal: everyone in the birth space. So, um, the first one I think goes without saying, and I, you know, I really went into my first pregnancy thinking that this is just how things were like, why wouldn't you, why wouldn't a doctor look at your specific case and give personalized care?
, but a lot of times, I have a little bit of sympathy for hospital based providers because a lot of times they are really overwhelmed, they have a lot of patients. So people talk about these 15 minute visits and that's why, they have to fit all these people in or like who's going to take them.
, and home birth midwives are faced with a similar predicament, but they have a little bit more control over. Their, load that they take on, so they just stopped taking clients, , but hospital based providers like, okay, I guess I got another. Another one. So, um, to the humility piece, I would really love to see hospital providers say, okay, I hear you and I see you regarding this kind of birth that you want.
And I think that you would be better served at home. And there are not, there are no hospital providers who are doing that. , for lots of reasons, the politics of the thing, you know, um, and, , money. I mean, the hospital is like, how many patients are you bringing in? And if you're dropping patients, telling them to go somewhere else, that's a problem.
Um, so that's an issue. I, I always tell people I can narrow down all of our problems to capitalism, but we're not fixing that anytime soon. So maybe a little humility, maybe humility is not the right word, but just like professional responsibility. I feel like it is our professional responsibility.
If, for example, um, a black person reaches out to me as a white person for doula support, I'm going to say, I'd love to serve you. I'd love to be with you during this time. There's also a lot of black doulas, if that's like something that vibes with you more and like, here's my favorites. Like,
Vanessa: Mm hmm.
Megan Neal: I would love to see hospital based providers doing more of that.
Um, and being trained into , how to do that and when to do that. Um, I'm not saying that you just like, I don't know, maybe you do, maybe you tell all of your patients who want unmedicated births, like to have a birth at home. Like, I don't think that most people even to be being told by a doctor are going to take you up on that, but I think it could put a lot of people's mind at ease and create a space for, cooperative care between midwives and OB.
And so I think that just makes it safer. Situation for everyone involved. That's what I wish I would.
Vanessa: And I do think at a certain point, all of that does stem back to humility, let's be honest, you know, and putting our egos to the side. , okay. And the last question I have, not that we can't continue with anything that you wanted to touch on, but is what keeps you passionate and motivated in the field of birth work?
Megan Neal: Every time I attend a birth, um, like, I don't know, just knowing that there's always going to be more that I can learn about this, like it's never going to get stale. Like I've probably had like 35 jobs in my life. No joke. Like, because they just get boring. It's just like the same tedious thing all the time.
, But every time I learn about something new, I'm just like, Oh my gosh, this is such an exciting field to be in. I, yeah, that's it.
Vanessa: Well, that's amazing. And I, I've talked about before on the podcast and with, you know, friends and other birth workers, we all know that every single birth is different. Every birth with the same person is different. You know, every pregnancy
Megan Neal: Oh, yeah.
Vanessa: You can have the same person have six births and every single story is going to be different.
So there is always something to learn,
Megan Neal: And
Vanessa: , reflect on. , you mentioned before too, you know, certain things happen at a birth and you, you're learning from them. And then also you're reflecting and asking the questions after the fact of, you know, whether or not that's, did I do this right? Or right, or could I have done something different, but like, would that have looked like if X, Y, Z, or, you know, just like, how do you carry that forward to the next one to,
Megan Neal: I try to give myself
Vanessa: yeah,
Megan Neal: the same compassion as I do families. Cause I get that question a lot from families too. Like, did I do everything? Like, what if I would have chosen this? Like, what would have happened? And like, I think it's healthy to work through stuff like that. And also look through it through a lens of non attachment.
Like,
Vanessa: yeah,
Megan Neal: okay, like we could have done that and it could have ended up exactly the same, or it could have ended up more like what you wanted it to look like, but it also could have turned out exactly. You know what I mean? Like, yes, yes, that could be a better situation, but yeah,
Vanessa: Yeah, and sometimes, from a doula perspective, specifically, it can be difficult if things didn't necessarily turn out the way that you wanted them to,
Megan Neal: yes.
Vanessa: separate yourself and understand that as long as you helped the birthing person and their partner advocate for what they wanted or, that you're all just doing the best with the information you have in the moment, That at the end of the day, it was their decision to make and they made that decision and your role was to just make sure that they had the space to give it true informed consent to process the information and to make that decision. , so no matter what your thoughts are after the fact and whatever you have to work through for yourself, just understand that , it's not your birth. , so at a certain point, like you don't. It's not right to have an opinion over it, either.
Megan Neal: Exactly. Truly. Like, it's, yeah. Yeah. I don't know any better way to say it. It's not, it's not our right to have an opinion about it. That is absolutely. That's why I like, I try not to be super specific with people's birth stories because
Vanessa: Yes.
Megan Neal: even the way we see somebody's birth is not going to be the way they saw their birth for a myriad of reasons.
And it's not fair for us to impose how we saw their birth onto them. And so like, that's another reason why when I get this question. I'm like, how much do I say here? Like, you know, I don't, I am not going to sit here and tell your whole birth story to you from my lens, because it's going to totally skew the way that you saw your birth, um, Maybe for better or maybe for worse, but I don't know, so I'm just not going to go there and you know, I also like, I have doulas that I reach out to and every single time, no matter which doula I reach out to after a birth, just to like process, um, always like, maybe you could have done something different, but you being there made it better.
Period. Like if you weren't there, things would have gone totally different. And I'm like, that's the thing that gives me the most peace when I'm leaving at birth thinking, Oh, could I have done something different? And like, I know that I went through all the things, I have all of my reference cards and the jewel is that I can call like, Hey, is there anything else I could do before we, you know, do Pitocin or do C Sec or Epidural or like whatever it is they're, they're not wanting to do.
Um, so I always know that I did everything that I could. With the information that I have. Um, so it's nice to have that doula squad behind me. That's just like doula ing me, I guess. Yes.
Vanessa: that even doulas need doula ed. Yeah, well, I feel fortunate to have you within my duo squad, um, I so enjoyed this conversation and we got some really good nuggets here.
Megan Neal: Talking about this always like energizes me so thank you
Vanessa: Oh, you're welcome.
Thank you so much for spending time with me today. I hope you found this episode helpful and encouraging on your journey. Don't forget to hit subscribe so you never miss a future episode. And if you enjoyed today's conversation, I'd be so grateful if you left a quick review. It helps others find the show.
For more information, Resources and links mentioned in this episode. Be sure to check out the show notes. You can also connect with me on Instagram at breath and birth. co for more support and inspiration until next time, remember you've got this and you're never alone in this journey.
