From Nursing to Nurturing: Megan Houle's (Little Dove) Journey to Becoming an IBCLC Lactation Specialist and Craniosacral Therapist
In this episode of the Breath and Birth Co. podcast, host Vanessa welcomes Megan Houle, a seasoned Registered Nurse, IBCLC, and Craniosacral Therapist from Little Dove, LLC. With 15 years of nursing experience and a decade as a lactation consultant, Megan shares her journey and insights into breastfeeding, including the importance of education and support systems. They discuss common misconceptions, advocate for prenatal breastfeeding consultations, and explore the impact of craniosacral therapy on lactation. Megan emphasizes personalized care, highlighting the significance of building a supportive community during pregnancy and postpartum. The episode concludes with practical tips for new families and details about Megan's upcoming breastfeeding class.
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00:00 Introduction to the Breath and Birth Co. Podcast
00:47 Meet Megan: Expert in Lactation and Craniosacral Therapy
01:36 Megan's Journey into Birth Work and Lactation
03:59 Challenges and Misconceptions in Postpartum
06:12 The Importance of Advocacy in Lactation
12:42 Practical Tips for a Calm and Empowered Postpartum
18:24 Building Relationships with Prenatal Visits
19:59 The Role of Craniosacral Therapy in Lactation
23:21 Craniosacral Therapy: Benefits for Both Baby and Birther
25:03 Telehealth and In-Home Visits
25:38 Building Your Village During Pregnancy and Postpartum
27:43 Partner Support in Breastfeeding
31:16 Exploring Breastfeeding and Formula Feeding Options
35:28 Navigating Breastfeeding During Subsequent Pregnancies
41:26 Resources and Support for Breastfeeding
44:32 Challenges and Changes in Lactation Care
48:37 Passion and Motivation in Lactation Work
51:24 Conclusion and Final Thoughts
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Vanessa: Welcome to the Breath and Birth Co. podcast. I'm Vanessa, a hospital based, Donut International certified birth doula, and passionate childbirth educator. I love to merge the power of your intuition with the precision of modern medicine to help you navigate pregnancy and birth your way. Each week we kick off with Monday meditations to bring calm and connection to your pregnancy.
Then we build your confidence through insights, birth stories, and care provider perspectives during thoughtful Thursdays. Ready to feel supported, informed, and empowered? Hit subscribe to the Breath and Birth Co. podcast today and let's embark on this transformational journey together. As a reminder, any information shared here is not medical advice.
For more details, visit breathandbirthco. com slash disclaimer.
I've got Megan here with me today of Little Dove, LLC. She's a registered nurse, IBCLC, and craniosacral therapist providing evidence based lactation support right here in Central Ohio. She has 15 years experience as a registered nurse and 10 years as a lactation consultant. In 2024, she completed the Certified Independent Lactation Therapist.
CILT for short program where she focused on craniosacral therapy for breastfeeding support. Her background includes NICU nursing, inpatient lactation consultant, private practice, and her own personal ups and downs breastfeeding each of her four babies, which I'm sure we'll get into today. Welcome, Megan.
Let's dive right in.
Megan: Thanks for having me.
Vanessa: Yeah, absolutely. Let's start off with what inspired you to pursue a career in birth work or lactation.
Megan: Absolutely. So I, graduated from nursing school in 2009. I did a short stint with adults. I knew that was not for me. , So I had the opportunity to, , work in the NICU. I've always loved working with babies. I have a large family, babysat, as my job, you know, when I was younger. So when I got pregnant with my first, , I remember everyone asking, well, are you going to breastfeed?
And, you know, my response was always, well, I'm going to try. Um, knew the importance of breastfeeding, just being a NICU nurse the benefits, that baby, would receive from breast milk. , But in the NICU didn't have a whole lot of experience with latching. And I worked mostly night shift too. So, I kind of went into breastfeeding, you know, with an open mind.
I was confident that I knew how to take care of babies. Again, that was my job, my career at the time. , But it was really, really hard with my first, we had a lot of struggle, a lot of challenges, that I quite honestly wasn't expecting. I thought I knew enough. to get me through, and I guess I did in the sense that I knew to pump when latching wasn't going well. So, I kind of took a deep dive when she was, about three months old. Started studying to become a lactation consultant, with my newborn. So,
Vanessa: Wow.
Megan: Quite a journey. Yeah,
Vanessa: Well, kudos for you for recognizing the need for that at the very beginning and really diving in it and doing your research. , So how long was the process to become an IBCLC for you?
Megan: it was, uh, it took me about a year. Um, I did an online program to do the book study portion of it. I think by the time I sat for my boards maybe it was two years, this was a minute ago. So I was actually
Vanessa: Yeah, yeah.
Megan: second, when I got my job as a lactation consultant. So it was maybe about a year and a half
Vanessa: Okay. Wow. Which is impressive. One, two years, whatever it was. That's impressive with one and a pregnancy too.
Megan: Yeah,
Vanessa: Um, on top of that. I'm similar. So I think we'll get along.
Megan: Yeah.
Vanessa: Okay. What's one of the biggest misconceptions you see about pregnancy, birth, or postpartum?
Megan: Yeah. So I think, you know, especially having my first, she was born in November. And it was, I didn't realize how isolating, um,
Vanessa: huh.
Megan: postpartum was So that's kind of a big focus of mine. When I'm working with clients is encouraging them to reach out for support, even just coming in for appointments, getting out of the house.
, But you know, one of the things I tell a lot of my clients and family and friends too, is like we weren't meant to do this alone. We weren't supposed to go through this journey by ourselves, whether it's breastfeeding or just, you know, being a new parent. And I think that's true for all stages.
As we're raising our kids, but, I've had some really great conversations with friends, who have kids that are older than mine. And they, you know, provide this, you know, wisdom and this guide, that I think is super beneficial. And I always leave those conversations feeling so much. Better. So that's, yeah, kind of having that support in that community makes a
Vanessa: Right, I totally agree. And as a fellow November mother, my one and only son was born in November and it happened to be the November before COVID. So I joke that we actually had three months more of lockdown than everybody else did. Um, cause that's really the peak of like, cold and flu and RSV season.
And then when you have a global pandemic rolled in there, it was extremely isolating. And even the village that we thought we had built up couldn't be there for us because we were in a global pandemic, you know, and, and in those early days, we really had no idea. So it really was like true quarantine with an infant.
Megan: Yeah, yeah, I can only imagine my 4th was born in 2021. So she's kind of a little bit more to the end of the pandemic, but I still call her my pandemic baby.
Vanessa: Yeah, well, and you had a pandemic pregnancy then too, which probably, impacted a lot. I would say a lot.
Megan: yeah, definitely.
Vanessa: yeah i ended up talking a lot about advocacy on the podcast, just in my role as a doula. So I'm curious, um, what role does advocacy play in the lactation process and how can parents prepare for that from your perspective?
Megan: That's a great question. I love this. So , I think. Absolutely. my, I come from a family of educators and I, you know, especially with your job as a doula as well. Like I, think that families need to prioritize educating themselves about not only how they're going to feed their baby, but how they're going to birth their baby, because that has such a profound impact on. Babies breastfeeding or not journey. , So , I think we need to be encouraging families to ask the questions to prepare for birth. , What interventions are they open to not open to, but what are those, , effects of those interventions? What are they going to have, , on. Not just mom, but baby as well. , So I think education before baby arrives is huge.
Vanessa: Yes., And would you say, too, in terms of after baby arrives, is there anything specific if a birther is pursuing breastfeeding and noticing anything, is there anything you would recommend for them in, I'm thinking more of like in a hospital setting? For them to help step up and advocate perhaps before they could see their own lactation consultant, anything that they should be looking forward that they can help advocate for themselves,
Megan: Yeah, I think, asking lots of questions if an intervention is recommended. Ask the why. Just to help them understand, the decision making process and really, Inserting themselves in the conversation so that it is a family decision. Because at the end of the day, what I share with my clients is this is your baby. And all of your health care providers, myself included, hiring us to help you guide you to take care of your baby. Yes, I have expertise in lactation, but I'm not an expert in. Your own family, so I think, just, yeah, asking a lot of questions, asking the why's that you have a better understanding because you might, kind of be more at peace if maybe, again, probably if breastfeeding is not going well and there's an intervention, tell me why I need to do X, Y, or Z so that I feel empowered with my decision and then we can move on, , to helping kind of get things back on track.
Vanessa: right? We use the brains acronym a lot in, labor and delivery process. So benefits, risks, alternatives. What's your intuition telling you? What if you do nothing or just not yet? Not now. And then the S is I think one of the most important pieces and that's holding space to really process that information and make that informed decision for yourself and your family, like you said, because every family dynamic is different.
And I think especially with something such as breastfeeding , there are so many factors to consider in what's best for the entire family unit, including baby mama and our birther and extended family too. Would you agree with that?
Megan: Oh, absolutely. And I think 1 of the biggest, and I love the holding space. , But the, what if we do nothing? Like, what if we wait, we reevaluate? , But that intuition piece, I think is so important. And especially that. You know, first baby, everything is new and it's really hard to, , kind of tap into that.
I think that first time around over, you know, the last 12 years, I've gotten better at that because I've had more experience kind of leaning into my intuition, with my own family. But, , it's hard. And when we are postpartum, We're in such a vulnerable state. We are, you know, more susceptible to the outside pressure.
So I think it's, it's a really challenging time , especially that immediate postpartum period, in the hospital. Okay.
Vanessa: be contradictory to either what you think, or contradictory to another piece of advice that you've been given from somebody else, and although advice comes at you in a very loving way, people want to help, I think that it can be really difficult to take that step back and focus inward and learning to, turn up the volume on your own intuition and , putting it all into perspective of your own family unit and what's right for you and your daily life and dynamics of the family.
Is there any specific memorable experience that shaped how you support families now in lactation support? Is there anything along the way in, your journey, either in NICU support or in your years of, of practice?
Megan: Yeah, that's a really great, question. Gosh, I mean, I've, I've supported a lot of families, you know, over the years over, , 14 years almost, working, in the hospital and then in my own private practice., I think one of the things about, , private practice that I am loving is , being able to follow families,
Vanessa: Mm hmm.
Megan: journeys. So there's one, client in particular that comes to mind. And this little babe is, getting ready to turn one. And mom, shot me a message and said that,, breastfeeding is still going really well and just kind of reached out to thank me, for some support.
But, in contrast to working in the hospital where, even if I worked a couple of days in a row, it's still only, three days and like, they're discharging, like, I don't know what's going to happen, you know, kind of hoping that they get the support they need to meet their, their feeding goals, but, following this family, for quite a while in the beginning, it was really rewarding. And exciting to see, you know, this mom just flourish and take off and kind of grow into, an awesome, awesome mom.
Vanessa: Ah, and I bet that's really motivating for you too in future clients and just building those relationships and seeing the value in that as a lactation Consultant Yeah, Are there any practical tips for creating a calm and empowered postpartum experience that you'd recommend for our listeners? Right.
Megan: to, , where I am now is,, I made some mistakes I want to help others not make those same ones. So prepare, prepare, prepare, educate yourself on again, not just how you plan to feed your baby. , Yes, that's, you know, important to have a, a space for baby to come home to, but the effort that sometimes I think we put into, creating a beautiful nursery. Versus the education piece, like, let's, you know, spend the time , building your birth team, asking lots of questions, kind of building in that postpartum support , because I think I was kind of shocked on how much support I needed . Just with taking care of myself this baby and my husband, who is also very tired from, having a newborn at home., So preparing ahead of time, even having conversations with your partner, and you might not know exactly what would be most supportive, but at least if you've opened those lines of communications, if you've already had some conversations about what you think might be helpful, then, It can make that , that much easier.
Or if you have people reaching out saying, what can I do? , You guys have already kind of figured out, okay, like, we're going to prioritize, food if
Vanessa: Right. Right,
Megan: , But preparing, having lots of conversations, , get all the education you can. , Before baby gets here that way , things are explained to you, especially in the hospital again, that's where most of my experience, has been so far, but, , you're not hearing it for the first time when you've just delivered a baby, you're exhausted, you're hormonal, if you kind of have, , an idea of what things could look like, then it just, it makes that, , Decision making process easier, and you're going to feel more empowered and prepared.
Vanessa: right, exactly. Yeah, totally agreed with that, too, that we can't always I say we can't always plan. Your birth and your postpartum, but you could prepare for it through education and asking the questions and just knowing your options And what's available so that when it does come time you can use the information you have at that time To make that decision instead of feeling even more overwhelmed with a brand new baby
Megan: Yeah, yeah.
Vanessa: and along those lines too in terms of building out your village and preparing for that.
, I think a lot of people and I want to hear your, your perspective on this too, but I feel like a lot of people think about lactation and breastfeeding as, okay, I'll figure that out postpartum or , okay, I have a list of consultants and then once baby comes, I'll see if I need one or, you know, I'll just reach out if I have any issues.
And based on your own experience as a breastfeeding mother, right. And now as an IBCLC, what's your reaction to that mindset?
Megan: , I can tell you the clients that I have worked with again, even in the hospital that they had prenatal consults, or they had an understanding of. Breastfeeding, they had that basic baseline knowledge. helps exponentially. , Even if, breastfeeding is not going well in the hospital, this one mom in particular is coming to mind, and just nothing was going right. I walked into her room, and I kind of saw on paper, you know, what was going on. And she was calm and she was just like, yep, you know, this is what we're doing. I've been hand expressing, I'm getting, you know, giving baby the milk and I was like, okay, kind of waiting for the floodgate of tears and not that that's bad or wrong, but she was just, she felt so confident in the feeding plan, even though I know that's not what she. Had walked into the hospital thinking was going to happen, but her prep, knowledge, , was just amazing that she was like, we're going to figure this out. And for right now, this is what we have to do to get there., So that was,, truly inspiring. And again, it makes a world of a difference because you can't plan for
Vanessa: Right.
Megan: , So the prep work. a huge difference., But also in my private practice, the clients that I have seen for a prenatal appointment,, honestly, it sets the stage. There's just this different level of comfort for that initial,, postpartum visit. So I feel like we're able to kind of get more done in that initial visit because we've already met each other, we've already gone through your health history, and we can kind of dive right in. , And kind of get to the problem. Plus I already kind of know your due date. I can make my schedule, , work for you. Cause usually if you need, you know, if things aren't going well, you know, it's going to feel like an emergency or you need to get seen,, right away. , And absolutely, especially in those first couple of weeks, like time is of the essence.
But if you have an established relationship ahead of time, it can really, I think, You're reminded of these as a new mom , in the provider again, if you guys know each other, it can, it can make a difference for sure.
Vanessa: That's great. And you mentioned a little bit there about, um, seeing clients prenatally and then building that relationship and having, you know, room in your calendar to work around with them. Can you expand on exactly what a prenatal visit might look like with you and then how you carry that care through into postpartum?
Megan: Absolutely. , So I've had quite a few, , in the last couple of weeks and I love educating. I love , getting that personalized touch on, . The plan, because , these 3 moms that I've seen in the last couple of weeks are prenatal appointments all had kind of a different expectation for feeding their baby , different birth plans, different, plans for the kind of the long term as far as back to work and all that.
So we really get a personalized touch on. The, , education, which I think is really, , important, there's, a lot you hear , I'm sure you do too, oh, you know, you shouldn't do this, you should do this, and we kind of are able to debunk some of those myths and, , I would say ask the why, shouldn't, you know, people say, why shouldn't, I was told not to pump in the first two weeks. sometimes we have to if you know, lodging isn't going well, but you hear that one statement. So again, kind of getting to answer those specific questions that you might not be able to, and other, you know, online classes,, but kind of get that personalized touch just to make sure that again, their specific questions are answered.
We can go over what their needs are and what, you know, they think is most important for their success.
Vanessa: And I know that you have the craniosacral perspective to your services and your care and your philosophy. , So I'd love to dive deeper into that and learn more about what that means and what that looks like I don't know that anybody in our audience really understands, that terminology of what craniosacral therapy even means or what it entails. , I think that word can be a little bit intimidating. So maybe we can break that down a little bit and then tell us what that looks like in person.
Megan: Absolutely. So , cranial sacral therapy is a gentle form of body work that uses light touch. So about five grams of pressure and that's about the weight of a nickel in your hand. , So it really, it works within our fascial So our fascia is the connective tissue that encompasses our Bones are muscles are organs., It's throughout our whole body. So it is helping the body to heal itself. So we all have the ability to heal. But the cranial sacral therapy , is moving energy. , you often hear , referred to as, releases.
Vanessa: Mm hmm.
Megan: . Any trauma, , any injury, whether that's physical, emotional, and hope can hold on to that and store that and birth can be traumatic, , not
Vanessa: Right. Wonderful.
Megan: in the body. , And I always say to that . Babies don't have as much stuff as adults do. So their bodies are really nice to work with because they make changes really easily. , So,, yeah, I feel like craniosacral therapy has been a game changer in My practice, but also in my life as well,, and after working at the hospital for many years, I was still seeing babies that like, I can't get them. They can't latch. You know, there's, we're doing all of the things and it was, I felt like my lactation training was only taking me. So far, , and I was just kind of getting this nudge like there has to be something else. There has to be more. I'd heard of cranial sacral therapy. Honestly, I didn't really even understand it that much when I signed up for my first class., I had a coworker that was told me she was signed up. She said, you want to do it with me?
I was like, sure. That sounds, you know, that sounds fun. I'll take a class. , And that first class, Quite literally changed my life. , Just from receiving treatment, I had not that long ago. I had my fourth baby. , It was a traumatic delivery. , And I didn't realize that I had not really. , And my body was holding on to a lot, from her birth.
So I received the treatments as we were learning about it and had some big, big emotional releases. , And I left there feeling like a new person and I knew that I was hooked and that I needed more. , So it was about a two year program and I completed that in December. So when I'm working with a family, , Again, a lot of education about the body of work and what we can do to support them.
But,, if a family, would like it's included in all of my lactation visits as well.
Vanessa: That's so wonderful. And does that include not just, , therapy for baby, but also birther too? I'm not sure how that works. I'm assuming it's mostly baby in terms of latching, but like you said, you experienced such a benefit from that therapy yourself, having processed the birth experience. So do you also offer those services to the birther as well?
Megan: absolutely. Yeah., I, my schedule is open for adults and babies as well. So, anybody can schedule, , just a craniosacral session. , But if, during the lactation appointment, if there's a need
Vanessa: Right.
Megan: therapy for anybody there, then yeah, that's included. Yeah.
Vanessa: I see your beautiful background right now, too. I'm noticing. Are you sitting , in an office that people would visit you at?
Megan: Yes, I am. So I moved to this office space in January. So I'm in Grandview now. Thank you. I'm loving it. The sun's shining through the window right now. It's, it's been wonderful. So,
Vanessa: do have a glow about you.
Megan: Well, my neighbor, she happens to be an esthetician as well. So, um,
Vanessa: well, there you go.
Megan: so it's been, yes. Nice.
Vanessa: Oh my gosh, that's so funny. I just sent my own estheticians , a reel that I saw on Instagram yesterday about, a woman that was breastfeeding during her facial.
Megan: I saw that. That was amazing. I love that.
Vanessa: Yeah. Um, okay. So yeah, so they could visit you in your office. Do you do in home, or telehealth visits as well?
Megan: Yes, I offer both. Um, telehealth, again, depending on the need, like prenatals can be good for a telehealth visit. , If, we need to do hands on, ,
Vanessa: Right.
Megan: then telehealth isn't. The best option for that. I do offer in home visits for the initial consult, usually within the first two weeks of life., So that's an option as well.
Vanessa: Yes, and I love that, that you offer that just because although it can be great to get out of the house in those early weeks, it can feel really overwhelming and that could be a barrier for people getting the help that they need. So that's awesome that you meet them where they are. Yeah., Okay, I think we kind of talked a little bit about this, but maybe we can dive a little deeper in terms of what's your advice for someone building their village during pregnancy and postpartum?
I know that, that we discussed the importance of it and maybe who to include in that, but do you have any other specific advice around,, building a village ?
Megan: I think, hiring the professionals that you might need for either your physical health, your mental health, obviously getting somebody that can support you with , lactation, , Whether you're going to be pumping, you know, directly breastfeeding is important, but, , there's so much wisdom in those that have gone before us, those that have, birth their babies, those that are raising babies kind of alongside of us. I think, , taking time to, pick people's brains or just, have a group of people , that you can reach out to when you're really struggling, when you're at your lowest point, maybe, or you're having a bad day, who can you call on? , And I know for myself, I'm like, I don't want to bother anybody.
I don't want to, you know, they might be having their own bad day. I don't want to
Vanessa: Right,
Megan: or, going from 1 baby to 2 babies, like, what was your biggest challenge? What was, most helpful for you? . So I think, yeah, really tapping into that, wisdom, because I can tell you, you know, some pieces of advice and a lot of it is don't do this, sometimes we, we have to go through, we have to go through it. And again, we're going to make mistakes and we're going to pivot and shift.
But, um, yeah, I think, again, being in community and being around others that are kind of walking that same journey and walking that same path , can be really refreshing.
Vanessa: All right. So aside from the larger village, the outside village, what about partners specifically? How can partners best support a birther postpartum and through their breastfeeding journey?
I think , A lot of couples that I've spoken to, the partners like, Oh, I know that she's going to be so busy with the breastfeeding or it's such a difficult task, especially in those first few weeks. So , what advice do you have for them to help the birth or one and to feel, maybe a little bit more involved ways that they can feel more involved in that process, even if they're not the one physically feeding the baby.
Megan: Yeah, I love I love this question. I think Setting the expectations ahead of time, knowing that those plans might, change , very quickly after baby arrives, but kind of thinking through, like, what would be helpful , just your presence, having, when I'm doing consults, whether it was in the hospital or in, my private practice, having your partner there, hearing this information,
Vanessa: Yes.
Megan: Is so helpful that way when the time comes, when you're trying to latch your baby for the first time, they might remember something that you don't, or, their point of view , when you're feeding your baby is different, , than the one actually latching.
So they can help and provide tips , maybe that you can't see because you just, you don't see where baby's hips are. You know,
Vanessa: Right. Mm hmm.
Megan: changing diapers, burping baby, if baby doesn't fall asleep at the breast, if they need settled, they can do that, after the feeding is done. I think a lot of times people assume that the partner, you know, has to give a bottle and they have to, you know, do it a certain way. And I just want to,, communicate that if, if that doesn't feel right, For you again, going back to the intuition, um, and that's okay. There are some families that both parents would prefer to pump into a bottle that, partner can be more involved and that's great too, but I want to encourage those families that, if mom's like, I really, I don't want to pump if I don't have to, , to. Kind of communicate that and to let you know that that's normal feeling too. And there are lots of ways that your partner can support you and can be involved. , Partners can do skin to skin,, right out the gate, you know, in the hospital, , into the delivery room. But then when you're getting home too, it's really wonderful for bonding for them. , I always recommend skin to skin
Vanessa: , That's great advice, too. And I love that you're also, , giving permission to really lean into, to the intuition and what's right for the family unit in terms of, of the wide array of options that you have for a breastfeeding journey. Admittedly, I did not breastfeed. We were a formula, fed family from day one by choice.
And I think so many people approach breastfeeding as an all or nothing thing. In that you might go into it saying I want to breastfeed. I intend to breastfeed. It's not working So I'm going to go to formula, you know that that's the next step that that's what I have to do so I love first of all that you brought up that there there's an array of options And what might feel right for one family, it might not feel right for another.
But can you maybe dive into what those options might look like and what you're seeing in some of your clients as examples of , what a breastfeeding journey or a formula fed supplement, journeys could look like. So people have a greater, breadth of knowledge there.
Okay.
Megan: and remove milk. if they cannot, then I think that warrants further exploration to figure out the why. Now, if a family chooses to breastfeed or not, like. That's not any of my business, as long as they've been educated, they've been given the option to freely choose that, then that's, that's most important. And I'm here to support. That family's choice again, they're hiring me to support them on their feeding journey., So, if latching is not going well, I think we need to get to the bottom of that with body work and with, whatever therapies might be warranted , because feeding is reflexive. Babies are born with these newborn reflexes for. The breast crawl for latching and attachment, and that suck, swallow, breathe coordination is so important , as foundational, but need the skills for the rest of our lives, too. So, that's one piece of it that I want to educate on, even if you are. bottle feeding your baby. How is that going? Is that , baby having a good time? Do they still have that sex while in brief coordination? Because that's really important that we have,. in place. , So I can support families in that way, but , I've had some clients that, you know, they don't know how they want to feed their baby or they have an idea. And then
Vanessa: Um,
Megan: didn't know that was what they needed until we tried Other
Vanessa: hmm.
Megan: , You know, there's some families that will pump a couple of times a day, give some breast milk and give some formula. And again, that's great to , as long as they have the education that. If you want the plan to look like X, Y, and Z, we need to be doing,
Vanessa: Mm hmm.
Megan: other side of it too. So I'm going to kind of lay it all out there for you. And then you get to pick and choose, what feels good. That might change day by day, week by week, or, as. aren't transitioning back to work that can change things as well, and that's okay.
, And I think I get a lot, as, we make that transition back to work for a lot of us, you know, what is feeding going to look like , and it can be hard and chaotic and that transition is a lot, but , you don't have to stop breastfeeding just because you're. Working, you can breastfeed baby in the morning, and then the evening when you guys are together, and then during the day, you can pump or not, you know, if you're able to at work.
So there's lots of different ways that feeding your baby. Will play out
Vanessa: Great. Thank you so much for outlining that. I think those are some great examples, of the variety , that people can, look inward and see what feels right. And again, that permits. that it can change. It can change based on if you're returning back to work or just based on the information you have at any given time.
And also, I imagine that you may see some people where they are having subsequent pregnancies too while still on their breastfeeding journey from a previous child. And that can change things too .
Megan: so much for
Vanessa: like how, like riding that wave of whatever your body, is able to, do as it grows another human.
, Is there any advice for anybody that might be in that situation where maybe they're still on their breastfeeding journey With an earlier child as they are progressing in their pregnancy for the next child and how that might impact,, lactation and feeding and milk production. Hello.
Megan: pregnant. , But kind of knowing that the placenta always wins, I think it's important to know that your milk will transition back to that colostrum as your body is preparing to feed another baby.
So your milk supply, , most of the time will go back to that classroom state. So if your baby is. Younger under a year of age, then we would need to come up with a plan on how we're going to help support older baby. if your baby is older and breast milk is not their primary source of nutrition, then most moms can continue to breastfeed.
If that's what you want to do, , again, encourage a conversation with your healthcare provider, , to , just check for any risk factors for preterm labor or anything like that. But most moms can continue to breastfeed as long as you want to. , And, a lot of moms choose to tandem nurse. And there's also a lot of moms that choose to wean. Due to pregnancy, for a variety of reasons,, so I think it's important to, again, kind of stay really flexible with that and just kind of take it as it comes,, and that actually happened to me with my 1st,
Vanessa: yeah. Okay.
Megan: she was 2 or 7 or 8 my. They're 19 months apart. , My first two, so she was starting to wean right about a year. , But my milk supply was going away anyway. , And so she wasn't, eating a ton of solids. . So I would distinctly remember in the nursery, I would breastfeed and then I always kept a bottle, on the floor , because I was noticing her diapers were starting to get a little bit drier.
So I was monitoring her,, hydration status that way, but, eventually she just started looking over to the floor cause she knew that the bottle, . So, looking back, I wish I would have had somebody to talk to you a little bit more about that, but I was doing a lot of my own research on my phone. One of those things I don't recommend, like talking to a real life person, probably could have made that translation a little bit easier. , But I kept breastfeeding her throughout, you know, the beginning part of my pregnancy., And it felt, It felt really good for us,, to continue that way.
Vanessa: That's great. Thank you for sharing your actual perspective to on that your experience. , That's exactly what I'm looking for for our listeners here and , understanding real life experiences and how that might feel, even just hearing the story to you and checking in on your intuition., And if that might feel right or not for you, that can give you a little baseline to go off of when you do some So I'm going to the professionals,, in terms of where , you might settle in.
Megan: Yeah. And that's it. And I'm a pretty much, I'm an open book. Like I have my book knowledge and I've got some professional training, but I also have, 12 years of motherhood training, in the trenches, that real life experience that , you're not going to get anywhere else.
, So I think it's important to. You know, explore both ends of it. , I think it's, you know, our duty, having, older kiddos now , to impart some of that knowledge and that wisdom that we've gleaned, over the years with those that are just kind of starting into this, motherhood journey , cause it's important.
And I think when you share again, those experiences, it can make a difference. Mm hmm.
Vanessa: as this podcast, even, , It can help break down the stigma around talking about anything along, the perinatal journey.
I feel like there's so many taboo topics and I would, I would loop breastfeeding into that too. I feel like there's a lot of people that just,, they don't know. that they should be getting educated beforehand. They feel like it's just something that you do, like baby's born, baby latches, everything's fine.
And if, if it doesn't work for you, then it either can't work or, there's nothing you can do about it, you know? , And so I think talking more openly about it and the options and that evidence based information behind everything, , can help break down those stigmas too, that it's okay to talk about it and share your own stories , whether that means listening to podcasts or , joining like a local breastfeeding group for instance, I would, I would recommend that as well because again, like you mentioned that in person connection can be really, really, pivotal in those early , weeks and months of your breastfeeding journey in terms of feeling supported, not just by a professional, but by others that are in that same phase of life as you.
Can be really important so that you can also not only seek advice from those that have come before but that those are that are currently in I can truly empathize with exactly where you are in that moment
Megan: yeah, definitely.
Vanessa: And with that being said Do you want to share anything about any kind of breastfeeding groups or resources that you have? For anybody that might be listening.
Megan: Yes, so I am in the final stages of, creating my own breastfeeding class. So I'm excited to be offering , that here shortly , year. So I've been working, getting my office set up and then with, you know, having kids in school and the flu and all that going around.
Vanessa: Oh, yes
Megan: my, my, my deadline has been pushed back a couple but, , I'm excited to be, offering, um, a class here shortly for families.
Vanessa: That's amazing. What will that class look like?
Megan: So it'll be, a basic, education class, , for feeding, we'll talk on kind of how to prepare yourself best for the early days., And then lots of resources for, what they can do, how to reach out, we'll touch on, pumping and when that's appropriate and when it's not. Needed
Vanessa: That's great. So will that be like a one time class or a weekly class or about how long of a commitment? Will that be?
Megan: it'll be a one time class. So I'm trying to nail down exactly how long it's going to
Vanessa: Yeah, absolutely.
Megan: time, but I know some people don't want to attend, you know, an all day class, but yeah,
Vanessa: Awesome. Well, I'm excited for you. That's so great. Aside from your upcoming class, is there any resources or existing books out there that you typically recommend to your clients?
Megan: that's a good question. I have a lot of resources. A lot of them are like short videos that I send , as far as like in the care plan. So when I'm working with somebody, you know, after the visit, I send out a care plan and it details my notes from the visit, what we talked about, , and I have a lot of video, resources for families as well., I do have a book. It's not I mean, it's about motherhood., It's called beautiful chaos. I
Vanessa: Okay.
Megan: that.
Vanessa: I have not.
Megan: it's on my shelf here, I think, but, um. Jessica and I might mess up her last name. I think it's Orich. Um, it's a collection of poems and
Vanessa: Oh, I think I have heard of. Yes. Okay.
Megan: Yeah. , I recommended that to a couple of clients just moving through this journey, you know, baby is now she's just three and a half. She's not three. She's three and a half. But, you know, again, kind of on the other side of things, it's just been a really beautiful reflection. And I wish I would have taken the time to kind of do some more of that reflection when my, I call them my big kids because they're 12, 10 and eight.
So they were kind of back to back. When they were younger. So it's a really beautiful book. And if you need a good cry, like, go ahead and read some of those, those poems on motherhood.
Vanessa: Awesome. Well, yeah, we'll definitely include that in the show notes too then. So this question might be a little loaded and if you can't narrow it down to one or if you need a little time to think about it, that's okay too. But what's one change you wish you could see in lactation care today?
Megan: That's a loaded question.
I think right off the top of my head, like, access to care , is Definitely needed, support, from insurance companies to cover care, , and to pay, to reimburse lactation consultants for, , the work they're doing so that, that burden doesn't fall on families , I think is something that, It's definitely needed. , I think there needs to be more research too. , I think, yeah, I think the access to care would be my,, one of the biggest changes.
Vanessa: I love that answer and I would also love to, expand on that because I think that's also a common misconception to around , people not understanding how insurance coverage might work with a lactation , consultant, what is covered, what's not, what that process looks like. So, although I think we can all agree that it, it needs improvement, can you maybe share with our listeners what it looks like today for you and how that works, , specifically in your practice?
Megan: Yeah, absolutely. So I have a couple of different options in my practice. , Am able to build OSU health plan directly. , So those visits are covered. , I also partnered with a company called the lactation network. works with some insurance plans, not all of them, but if they do with work with your insurance plan, then they take care of the billing. They take care of paying me. And unless there's a travel fee, , then there's no out of pocket cost for the families. , And I also offer a self pay rate as well and provide a super bill that way the families can , seek reimbursement through their insurance companies. I'm toying with the idea of getting a network with some , insurance companies to kind of add to that. Um, but I'm trying to balance, being the owner and the, you know, sole
Vanessa: Right.
Megan: of this, um practice, you know, where do I need to spend my time? Cause there's only enough, you know, so many hours in the day, but , that's something that I'm, I'm looking into. So definitely have to increase my knowledge on billing and all of that.
Vanessa: Yeah, and I've heard from, from so many people, in birth work in particular, who have gone into private practice and whether or not they're willing to even deal with insurance or why they left their previous roles was because of, having to fight with insurance to provide the care that they knew that their clients and patients needed.
Um, That alone became a full time job and it was becoming a barrier to them providing the care that they knew that , those seeking their care really needed. , So again, I think we can all agree that there needs to be improvements overall, , in access, , both physical access, financial access.
access, everything around, , around these things. And so too, if your insurance does cover it, my understanding is it's typically, is it six visits that's covered or is that dependent also on?
Megan: yeah, it kind of depends. I've had clients that I've worked with for months through the lactation network. So again, it kind of depends and it's a little bit more of a case by case basis, but I
Vanessa: Okay.
Megan: times that's what we hear. The Lactation Network does their billing. , I think it's a little bit different.
So, it, it might actually be more than six visits, but it's not a bad idea for , people to call your insurance ahead of time and see what coverage looks like. And if they have out of network benefits too , that would be helpful to know.
Vanessa: That's great advice. , Okay. And,, this is my last question, unless there's anything you really. Feel like I didn't get to talk about this. I really wanted to share. Um, but what keeps you passionate and motivated in the field of lactation ?
Megan: So, I think, I've had a couple of clients reach out lately with older babies and just hearing their stories, and it's not even the success stories too, but kind of hearing the impact, that we all have , on these families. I think is really special. And, , the more that I'm learning, you know, each class that I'm taking, , it just kind of ignites this fire.
Like I want to know more, I want to go deeper. , So I am going to be taking another craniosacral training at the end of the year. And I'm super excited to dive , a little bit deeper into that, and working with the body work piece too. So that has been, Something that kind of keeps me going. I, you know, I'm a lifelong learner.
I'd much rather sit in a class than sit, trying to figure out insurance billing , so I think the education , for my own knowledge and my own growth has been what's keeping me going. , I'm wrapping up a yoga teacher training right
Vanessa: Oh, awesome.
Megan: too. So I have been loving that and just in different aspects of the body and the movement, um, that I'm, this is down, down the road, but, you know, I love to offer a prenatal yoga, um, series or a mommy and me, you know, yoga series with, a newborn and ways that we can, , move our bodies and find healing,, in the perinatal season.
Vanessa: Right. I love that so much. So you're doing a 200 hour right now then?
Megan: Yeah, I am.
Vanessa: That's awesome. Um, where are you doing it?
Megan: It's Mat Happy in the Hilliard.
Vanessa: Yeah. Awesome., Well, I know a girl for prenatal once you're ready. And I actually, I jumped right into the prenatal just timing wise., And I wasn't sure if I wanted to pursue the 200 hour fully. Okay. And how I might use my training. But like you said, I'm also just a lifelong learner and I'm like, no matter what, even if I decided I, I don't want to teach yoga , that the knowledge I'll gain in this course will make me a better birth doula, childbirth educator, you know, just, um, and yeah.
And I say too, that it was a little bit for me too, in my own yoga practice and
Megan: Yes.
Vanessa: Well, Congrats on that and congrats on completing the C I L T was it? Is that what it was called? Yes.
Megan: Certified independent lactation therapist.
Vanessa: Awesome. Well, thank you so much.
Megan: Yeah.
Yeah, yeah,
Vanessa: and a great, great conversation. So,
Megan: thank
Vanessa: right.
Megan: I appreciate the invite.
Vanessa: Bye.
Thank you so much for spending time with me today. I hope you found this episode helpful and encouraging on your journey. Don't forget to hit subscribe so you never miss a future episode. And if you enjoyed today's conversation, I'd be so grateful if you left a quick review. It helps others find the show.
For more information, Resources and links mentioned in this episode. Be sure to check out the show notes. You can also connect with me on Instagram at breath and birth. co for more support and inspiration until next time, remember you've got this and you're never alone in this journey.